Jab's Builds: Fear Lords, Dark Man, DC's Thriller, The S-Men

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saint_matthew
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Re: Jab's Builds: Jericho, Jesse Quick, Kyle Rayner, Joto

Postby saint_matthew » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:22 am

Ares wrote:I think part of the problem with both companies presently is that they're so convinced that they both desperately want to appear ultra mature and what not that they're forgetting that comics are suppose to be the ultimate fun kitchen sink settings where you can have intergalactic space cops with rings that run on willpower, secret civilizations of talking gorillas, living planets with human faces on them, etc.


But, but, but however will we pretend that we don't really like superheroes if we don't keep on trying to do the hipster, post-modern superhero thing in which we try to remove all the super hero aspects of superheroes, in the pretense that that makes it post ironic literature that i'm just reading to prove i'm too cool to read it? I mean who will think of the children... The post modern hipster children.

Actually you know what, new rule: Anyone who walks into a comic shop wearing skinny leg jeans, a fadora, or a weather innappropriate scarf gets shot... The zombie virus must be stopped... I mean the hipster post modernism plague must be stopped... Wow, thats weird how in my head zombies & hipsters occupy the same niche.

greycrusader wrote:I was at Wizard Con in Chicago once a few years back and Mark Waid said it best: "You can write a three-part story where all the JLAers turn into super-gorillas or they all swap powers and it can work; you can't do that with the Avengers.

(Note the above restriction doesn't apply to the GLA or even the goofier incarnations of the West Coast team).


Avengers Academy, almost could have got away with it... It'd still be a stretch.

Of just an FYI in case any one didn't know DC actually release that in trade paperback format a couple of years ago, it was called "DC Comics Goes Ape"

greycrusader wrote:I'd agree that after that, Neutron mostly faded into mediocrity, appearing in the background of a mob of unremembered Superman villains, and getting killed off in the mess that Salvation Run turned out to be.


Please Grey, i'm trying to forget i own Salvation Run in trade format, also trying to forget it exists entirely.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Terra, CM Jr., Mary Marvel, Blackfire

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:54 am

Although... Marvel DID have the "Marvel Apes" thing, complete with an alternate universe full of ape people. So you never know...

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Re: Jab's Builds: Terra, CM Jr., Mary Marvel, Blackfire

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:28 pm

Image
Image

CHESHIRE (Jade Nguyen)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & George Perez
First Appearance: The New Teen Titans Annual #2 (1983)
Role: Dragon Lady, Evil Mercenary, Asian Baby Mama
Group Affiliations: The Ravens, Tartarus, The Secret Six
PL 10 (195)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 14 DEXTERITY 6
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 8 (+15)
Athletics 10 (+13)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+16)
Deception 5 (+8, +10 Attractive)
Expertise (Mercenary Assassin) 10 (+13)
Expertise (Sciences) 12 (+15) -- (Flaws: Limited to Poisons)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 7 (+14)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, Attractive, Chokehold, Connected, Contacts, Defensive Attack, Elusive Target, Equipment 2 (Poisoned Blades), Fascination (Deception), Grab Finesse, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Critical (Sword), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative 2, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 2 (A Few), Luck, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4, Takedown, Tracking, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Poisoned Fingernails That Never Hit"
"Paralytic Poison" Affliction 8 (Fort; Dazed & Fatigued/Exhausted & Stunned/Paralyzed) (Extras: Extra Condition, Progression +2) (Inaccurate -2) (30) -- [31]
    AE: "Heart-Stopping" Weaken Abilities 8 (Extras: Broad-Abilities, Simultaneous, Progression +2) (Flaws: Limited to Stamina & Agility) (Inaccurate -2) (30)
Offense:
Unarmed +16 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Swords +14 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Paralytic Fingernails +10 (+8 Weaken, DC 18)
Heart-Stopping Fingernails +10 (+8 Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +15

Defenses:
Dodge +16 (DC 26), Parry +16 (DC 26), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- Cheshire works for money.
Relationship (Roy & Lian Harper)- Jade still has feelings for Roy (aka Arsenal, Red Arrow, etc.), and cares for her daugher Lian. However, certain writers make her a complete sociopath who only cares for having ANY offspring, and so she's willing to sacrifice Lian if she has a "spare".
Responsibility (Completely Evil)- Though Cheshire started off a bit moral (she would kill for anyone, but would betray those she felt morally abhorrent, like a South African anti-black crusader), she eventually just turned into a straight-up loon who would kill for nearly any reason. She once blew up AN ENTIRE COUNTRY (the nation of Qurac) to prove a point.
Power Loss (Poisons)- Cheshire must break the skin to have her Poisons take effect. If the opponent has even rudimentary armour that could block sharpened fingernails, they will be unaffected, regardless of their Fortitude.

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 62--31 / Advantages: 30 / Powers: 31 / Defenses: 17 (195)

-Cheshire started out as a strangely-dressed half-Asian assassin in the "Titans" books, challenging the group as a contract killer (much like Deathstroke). Eventually, it was revealed (during a disastrous battle where Donna Troy led a rag-tag group of ex-Titans & Jason Todd against Cheshire's assassins and failed horribly for the most part... it DID feature a cute moment when Jason said "for an old lady, you're not so bad" and offered to take out any young sisters she may have, and Donna- who'd previously been all distraught after nearly killing the asshole Hank Hall in a fit of anger- jokingly said she was gonna put him over her knee) that she was a Vietnamese Baby Mama, having been knocked up by Roy Harper years before.

-She ended up becoming one of the bigger female villains going, actually transcending the Titans for a while, having been a major player in "Birds of Prey" and "Villains United", where she got knocked up a SECOND time, this time by Catman (her and those heterosexuality-threatening bad boys, I swear...), though Gail Simone often writes her as WAY more evil and crazy than Wolfman ever did (acting like she didn't care about her daughter's fate so long as she had SOME child out there. Plus the whole genocide thing).

-Cheshire is a pretty good comparison to Marvel's Elektra, being a sexy raven-haired assassin-for-hire who is a good match for any PL 10 Martial Artist. She's pretty run of the mill in that regard (though at PL 10, is way better than most of them), but her poisons are EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous, being able to drug and/or kill her victims (which of course means that they can ALMOST NEVER HIT IN BATTLE, since that would kill the heroes... good old Inaccurate fits that just fine. It WOULD be harder to hit somone with fingernails than just punching them, after all). Offensively, she could take on Black Canary, Nightwing, Arsenal and even give Batman himself a good fight, but she's not the best of the best or anything.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby greycrusader » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:15 pm

As you stated, it rather does make "real world' sense for Cheshire's poisoned-nails attacks to be inaccurate-she pretty much has to strike only at exposed skin (small target areas) and even avoid bits like the top of the skull or other bony areas where her overgrown nails might just break off without penetrating enough to inject the toxins.

Also, human hands aren't really designed for fighting as if they were cat's paws, though presumably Cheshire studied Tiger-style Kung Fu.

I agree Gail Simone went overboard in making Cheshire "THE EVILUZ", though the villainess was always pretty amoral and vicious in her Titans appearances.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:36 pm

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RED PANZER I (Helmut Streicher)
Created By:
Martin Pasko & Jose Delbo
First Appearance: Wonder Woman #228 (Feb. 1977)
Role: Super-Nazi
PL 10 (132)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+6)
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Soldier) 8 (+11)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Perception 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Benefit (Nazi High Command), Improved Critical (Hand-Cannon) 2, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Red Panzer Armour" (Flaws: Removable) [36]
"Hand Cannon" Blast 11 (Extras: Penetrating 8) (30)
"Heavy-Duty Armour" Protection 7 (Extras: Impervious) (14)
-- (44 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Hand Cannon +9 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4 (+11 Armour, +4 Impervious), Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (The Nazi Party)
Hatred (Jews, Others)- Streicher believes absolutely in the idea of Aryan superiority.

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 36 / Defenses: 9 (132)

-Red Panzer is a one-note Wonder Woman villain (a Retcon Character from the 1970s who was a WWII-era Nazi, in what was an Earth-Two tale involving Diana accidentally being sent there) who randomly had a modern-era successor (who appeared in a one-shot focusing on Donna), then his son showed up to fight Donna Troy. It turns out the latter was fueled by a lot of self-hatred, since it turns out that Red Panzer's wife's great-great-grandmother had been a slave, and so the current Panzer was part-black. Trying to gain revenge for his father (who died fighting Wonder Woman & Troia), he was pretty incompetent, and was casually-murdered by one of the ring-leaders of Tartarus, Damien Dahrk. The next Panzer was a random nihilist H.I.V.E. mook who was basically just shoved into the outfit because "we need a Red Panzer". He actually stuck with the gimmick for a bit, showing up in a few background scenes.

-The first Red Panzer is an elite Nazi with PL 10 stats thanks to his military experience. The second was just a loser kid who was MAYBE PL 8 thanks to poor accuracy, as was the third.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby Grayson » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:14 am

Is it me or do these Nazi villain types always dress like complete idiots? Most of them could definitely use a healthy dose of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Geez.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby Jabroniville » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:26 am

There's probably an issue of making their costumes TOO cool, and thus having fans want to cosplay as them or something. Maybe they're supposed to DELIBERATELY suck so nobody is tempted to like them :).

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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby Kreuzritter » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:21 am

yeah, Red Panzer's totes a jobber villain anyway
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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby danelsan » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:35 am

I guess Karl Diebitsch was too busy with the war to design the uniform of every single nazi villain, so only the non-super nazis got to look good while doing evil :lol:
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Re: Jab's Builds: Mary Marvel, Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshir

Postby Jabroniville » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:22 pm

Image

DEATHSTROKE THE TERMINATOR (Slade Wilson)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & George Perez
First Appearance: The Teen Titans #2 (Dec. 1980)
Role: Super-Soldier, Elite Mercenary, Bad-Ass Anti-Hero
PL 11 (254)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 8
FIGHTING 15 DEXTERITY 7
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 9 (+17)
Athletics 10 (+16)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+17)
Deception 10 (+13)
Expertise (Tactics) 8 (+12)
Expertise (Mercenary) 12 (+16)
Insight 8 (+13)
Intimidation 10 (+13)
Investigation 4 (+9)
Perception 11 (+16)
Persuasion 5 (+8)
Stealth 4 (+13)
Vehicles 1 (+8)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, All-Out Attack, Benefit 3 (Ambidexterity, Reputation as The Best, Wealth), Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Chokehold, Connected, Contacts, Defensive Attack, Elusive Target, Equipment 5, Evasion, Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Critical 2 (Staff), Improved Critical (Guns), Improved Critical (Sword), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative 2, Instant Up, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 3 (Several), Power Attack, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover, Close/Concealment), Prone Fighting, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5, Seize Initiative, Takedown 2, Tracking, Uncanny Dodge, Well-Informed

Powers:
"Enhanced Physique"
Regeneration 4 (Feats: Diehard, Great Endurance) [6]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]

"90% of Brain Used" Quickness 4 (Flaws: Limited- Mental Tasks Only) [2]

"Blaster Staff" (Flaws: Easily-Removable) [11]
Blast 8 (Feats: Split 2) (Diminished Range -1) (17) -- (18 points)
    AE: "Staff Smash" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach 2) (4)
Equipment:
"Sword" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Improved Critical) (Extras: Penetrating 4) (7)
"Body Armour" Protection 1 (Extras: Impervious 5) (6)

Offense:
Unarmed +17 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Sword +15 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Blaster +12 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +16

Defenses:
Dodge +15 (DC 25), Parry +15 (DC 25), Toughness +6 (+7 Body Armour), Fortitude +8, Will +12

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- Slade is a killer-for-hire.
Relationship (Grant & Joseph Wilson)- Slade loved both of his sons dearly, but feels responsible for their demises. Grant worshipped him, and died imitating his Terminator persona as "The Ravager". Joseph was rendered mute by one of Slade's mistakes, and he was later forced to kill him to save his soul (and the universe).
Relationship (Adeline Wilson)- Slade fell in love with his superior in the military, but grew distant from her. When she attempted to murder him over Joseph's mutilation, she cost him an eye.
Relationship (Terra)- Slade entered into a sexual relationship with a fifteen-year-old sociopath, hoping that her deceptive nature and powers would get her in good with the Teen Titans. It worked, but he horribly-miscalculated just how unhinged Tara Markov really was.
Relationship (Wintergreen)- Slade saved Wintergreen's life years ago, and has retained his services as a servant and partner ever since. He remains Slade's best and only friend (which made his murder at Slade's mind-controlled hands all the more tragic).

Total: Abilities: 106 / Skills: 104--52 / Advantages: 52 / Powers: 22 / Defenses: 22 (254)

-Slade's got a long and storied history for a guy who started as a mastermind villain in a brand-new teen hero book in the late 1970s. Hell, he got the kind of start that would likely fail if tried today, where a "lesser" version of himself went up against the Titans first, only to die from his own stupidity, necessitating Slade taking the lesser one (his son Grant)'s place. But the way he did it, by getting a spy put onto the team (good ol' Terra), SLEEPING WITH HER (even though she was fifteen, sixteen, tops), then taking the Titans out in their homes when they least expected it, sealed the deal, making him a legendary villain. Of course, they did the standard "he's not so bad after all" thing, as without a mercenary contract out on the Titans, he had no reason to hate them, and actually had a bunch of relatively polite conversations with Changeling about Terra and their relationship and stuff like that.

-He even got a fairly long-running solo series in the '90s, which of course is almost completely forgotten today, as are most '90s solo runs of non-major characters (and villains). I think it's only remaining link to nowadays is Rose Wilson, aka Ravager II. But he got a MAJOR boost to the big leagues thanks to his run in the Secret Society's inner circle and a vendetta against Green Arrow (lousy Ollie, stealing the Titans' best villain... well, I guess he still menaces them too...).

-Ooh, funny story about his name, too. Sounds clumsy, don't it? And in the cartoon he's just "Slade". Well, he WAS just "The Terminator" for the most part early on (though in his debut he DOES use the name "Deathstroke" once), but then a little movie came out by the same name, which ended up being a whole hell of a lot more famous than a villain in a comic series. Suddenly, this "Deathstroke" name gets added onto it permanently. And then the Titans cartoon can't use THAT name either, because of the word "Death" in it, so he just goes by his real name. Bizarre stuff, the kind of thing that only happens in comic books and pro wrestling.

-And yeah, Deathstroke's a savage monster in combat. +17 to Attack and +15 to Defense (though it's the chemical enhancements that do it) make him a nasty bugger, even though he "only" does +5 damage normally. But his Combat Advantages are so extensive he can modify all his caps at will, he's got Improved Critical on all his major attacks, he can Quick Draw anything, fight from a prone position, he's as good at range as he is in close, he's got mental Quickness ("90%" of his brain is used, based off of that Old Wive's Tale of most people only using 10%), AND he's a major Skillmonkey to boot!

-Note that his Regeneration isn't as good as it would get in his solo series yet (where it's basically Immortality), and that even though he's only got one eye, it doesn't affect any of his stats adversely enough to count as a Complication. And also, he gets MUCH better later on- it's quite clear in the early Titans stories that Slade has slowed down with age, even lowering his guard to allow observation (Adeline mentions this when she's able to spy on him, and again when he fails to capture Dick Grayson and is actually forced to chase him IN BROAD DAYLIGHT while in full costume!). He got a bigger power-boost later, gaining a ton of ability, and his Power Level shoots all the way up to PL 12-13 easily (largely due to Strength 6 and higher Defenses, plus a bit more accuracy).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshire, Deathstrok

Postby Jabroniville » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:47 pm

MORE RANDOM MARVEL CHARACTERS:
I kind of dig these little projects that basically just filter out some random characters I've either missed or never heard of. Once again, it's a combination of random stuff, and Robert Reaper's "List of Marvel Characters", which contained a lot of random names I've never heard of.

So what I did was take the list, narrow down 97 or so characters I wanted to build, then split them up into three groups (because a couple months is probably too long to spend on mostly Jobbers, despite my love for them). And so we have a few weeks' worth of builds out of the second pile (I've already completed the first):

Characters I know of but have missed for whatever reason:
The Yellow Claw (only from a big Marvel coffeetable book from 20 years ago, that brings him up as part of their '50s comics)
The Blonde Phantom (same, but with Golden Age stuff and a She-Hulk guest appearance)
Nuke (that Daredevil guy with the flag facepaint)
Toro (Golden Age Human Torch's sidekick)
Justin Hammer
Devil Dinosaur & Moon Boy
Fasaud (only heard of him from a Marvel SAGA RPG booklet on the FF's enemies)
Crucible (same)
Ulysses Bloodstone
Cadaver (Secret Defenders character)
The Soul Skinner (one-shot X-Men foe)
Belasco (Ruler of Limbo)
S'ym (Belasco & Illyana's servant)
Howard the Duck (the early '80s sensation)
The Giant-Size Man-Thing
Jennifer Kale (GSMT's Bikini-Clad... helper person)
Master Mold (Sentinel Creator)
Master Pandemonium (Demons For Hands)
The Ancient One (Dr. Strange's mentor)

Guys I've never heard of:
The Blank
Arsenal
Ghoul
Dr. Sun
Ecstacy
Kiber
Killer Shrike
Bushwhacker
Humbug
Headlok

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Re: Jab's Builds: Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshire, Deathstrok

Postby Skavenger » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:53 pm

One of my favorite Deathstroke moments is actually my favorite Aquaman moment. In his own series he faced off against Hal Jordan, Wally (I think this was before "The Return of Barry Allen" so he wasn't as fast), and Aquaman. He takes out GL with a staff to the nuts, is able to trip the Flash and send him skidding across the ground, but is actually scared to face Aquaman one-on-one since the Atlantean is faster and stronger than him. Deathstroke actually tries to kick Aquaman and bounces off him, and has to "win" by collapsing a building onto the two of them and diving out at the last minute.

But for that moment I liked how it showed Deathstroke approached combat, figuring out weaknesses of his opponents even if it meant turning strengths into weaknesses.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshire, Deathstrok

Postby Jabroniville » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:04 pm

Yeah, never mind that time he took on AN ENTIRE LEAGUE SQUAD sent to mess up Dr. Light in "Identity Crisis". Though a lot of fans of the victims were upset about them relentlessly jobbing out to a single guy like that (particularly him just out-willing Kyle Rayner).

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Re: Jab's Builds: Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshire, Deathstrok

Postby greycrusader » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:16 pm

Yes, and because every JLA member on the squad had to basically act like dim-witted incompetents to job out to Slade...sure, GL and Zatanna should get way up close to a master melee combatant, even though they were the long-range fighters, teamwork was out of the question...basically this was a case of gradual power-creep, because DC wanted Deathstroke to be their equivalent to Wolverine.

(Of course, this was one of the things LEAST wrong about Identity Crisis, a story I don't mind being erased by the new 52 at all.)

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Re: Jab's Builds: Blackfire, Shockwave, Cheshire, Deathstrok

Postby Moira » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:33 pm

Jabroniville wrote:Yeah, never mind that time he took on AN ENTIRE LEAGUE SQUAD sent to mess up Dr. Light in "Identity Crisis". Though a lot of fans of the victims were upset about them relentlessly jobbing out to a single guy like that (particularly him just out-willing Kyle Rayner).


The "outwilling" thing is kind of a fence thing for me. On one side you have a show of power that shows you there are people without lantern rings that can do just as well without them. Batman and Deathstroke probably deserve rings, but they quite capable without "real" superpowers. On the other hand, eh, it does pop out of nowhere when it happens and does feel like they're pulling it out of nowhere. But then again, if it makes sense? Yeah, i'll buy it.
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