Jab's Builds: Fear Lords, Dark Man, DC's Thriller, The S-Men

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds: Arsenal, Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk

Postby Jabroniville » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:50 pm

Image

Wild NIGHTWING uses HANDSOMENESS.
JABRONIVILLE is confused (and a little curious)!
NIGHTWING uses TONED ASS-SHOT.
It's super-effective!
JABRONIVILLE fainted!


NIGHTWING (Dick Grayson, aka Robin I)
Created By:
Bob Kane, Bill Finger & Jerry Robinson
First Appearance: Detective Comics #38 (April 1940)
Role: The Sidekick, The Comic Relief (to Batman), The Bristling Sidekick, Stoic Leader Guy (to The Titans), Mr. Fanservice
Group Affiliations: Batman & Robin, The Teen Titans, The Titans, The Justice League
PL 10 (215)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 11 (+18)
Athletics 10 (+13)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+16)
Close Combat (Escrima Sticks) 3 (+15)
Deception 9 (+13)
Expertise (Streetwise) 9 (+13)
Expertise (History) 2 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+8)
Insight 6 (+11)
Intimidation 3 (+7)
Investigation 8 (+13)
Perception 8 (+13)
Persuasion 5 (+9)
Ranged Combat (Wing-Dings) 4 (+13)
Stealth 8 (+14)
Technology 6 (+12)
Treatment 1 (+5)
Vehicles 9 (+13)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Attack, Defensive Throw, Defensive Roll, Equipment 12 (Bat-cycle, Utility Belt), Evasion 2, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Grab Finesse, Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Critical (Wing-Dings), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 1 (Various), Leadership, Luck, Power Attack, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover, Close/Concealment), Prone Fighting, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5, Set-Up 2, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics), Takedown 2, Teamwork, Tracking, Ultimate Acrobatics Skill, Uncanny Dodge

Equipment:
"Bat-cycle" Motorcycle (Medium, Strength 1, Speed 6- 120 mph, Defense 10, Toughness 8, Remote Control (11)

"Utility Belt"
Camera, CommLink, Audio Recorder, Handcuffs, Binoculars, Mini-Tracer, Night Vision Goggles, Flashlight, Gas Mask, Multi-Tool, Rebreather, Cutting Torch (12)
"Grapple Gun" Movement 1 (Swinging) (2)

"Choking Gas" Affliction 6 (Fort; Dazed & Vulnerable/Defenseless & Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cloud +2, Ranged, Extra Condition) (Diminished Range -1) (29) -- (32)
    AE: "Wing-Dings" Blast 3 (Feats: Homing, Ricochet) (Extras: Multiattack) (Diminished Range -1) (10)
    AE: "Smoke Pellets" Concealment (Visuals) 2 (Extras: Attack, Area- 30ft. Cloud +2) (10)
    AE: "Escrima Sticks" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Split) (2)
-- (57 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +16 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Escrima Sticks +15 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Batarangs +13 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Choking Gas +6 Area (+6 Affliction, DC 16)
Initiative +11

Defenses:
Dodge +15 (DC 25), Parry +15 (DC 25), Toughness +4 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +11

Complications:
Motivation (Justice)- When Dick Grayson lost his parents, he became as lionized against crime as Bruce Wayne.
Responsibility (Gotham City, Bludhaven)- Dick considers himself Gotham & Bludhaven's protector.
Responsibility (Socializing Bruce)- Alongside Alfred, Dick is the "normalizing" influence in Bruce Wayne's life. Without them, he is dangerously close to permanent brooding & introspection. He's there to help Bruce crack a smile once in a while.
Relationship (Barbara Gordon)- Dick & Barbara engage in some light or serious flirtation.
Enemy (The Joker, The Pengiun, etc.)- All of Batman's Rogues also want Nightwing dead.
Reputation (Lawless Vigilante)- Batman is generally more frightening to the people of Gotham, but what Robin/Nightwing does is still technically illegal.
Rivalry (Batman)- Though Bruce raised Dick from the age of twelve, Dick is now struggling to make his own way as a hero, and is occasionally twisting under Batman's shadow.
Relationship (Starfire)- Dick & Kory fell in love while they were both Teen Titans, and despite their differences (namely that she was a warrior unafraid of killing, while Dick was strongly motivated to protect all life), nearly married. Because this is comics, they eventually broke up, and the relationship is generally only paid lip service these days.
Relationship (Barbara Gordon)- Oracle was once a teen crush of Dick's, but as they grew older, they matured into one of those "kinda/kinda not" relationships most Bat-people have.
Relationship (The Titans)- Dick grew up with Aqualad, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash & Speedy, but also thinks of Cyborg, Changeling & Raven as siblings. As the leader, he had to be the responsible, brooding, intense one, and took himself very seriously as a result. They remain his dearest friends.
Responsibility (So Very Handsome...)- Despite not really using it like the Advantage "Attractive", Dick is very, very good-looking. This draws him a lot of attention from the female super-crowd, which he usually has to deal with. He's had near-stalkers (Bette "Flamebird" Kane), bad girls (The Huntress, Tarantula, probably a bunch of other) and more.

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 110--55 / Advantages: 54 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 20 (215)

-The Wolfman/Perez era of the Titans is one of my all-time favourite comic book run (hovering between that and Byrne/Claremont's X-Men run from the same era), and yet that's only ONE of the times where Dick Grayson was used at his best. It's kinda funny that such a great character could be created out of the IDIOTIC idea that an adult crimefighter would throw a pair of tights on a pre-teen and have him fight dangerous criminals. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Cop running around with a kid dressed as a Teen Cop, with his own little gun & badge?

-It's kinda hard to define Dick Grayson as the Titans leader, because he was very much the quintessential 1980s comic book team leader: Super-serious, mostly humorless, deeply attracted to a teammate, a better fighter than the rest of the team, etc. Dick was sort of the centre of the team, even though he was never the most important character to a crossover it seemed. Gar & Terra were most important to the Terra/Judas Contract run (though Dick had the most panel-time), Raven mattered more to Trigon, Starfire had her own villain in Blackfire, Cyborg had his run when he got a more human body, etc. Oddly (and deliberately), Dick pretty much never even fought one of his Batman enemies during his time as Titans leader, as Wolfman & Perez wanted the kids to matter more in their own right, and not have to deal with their mentors' bad guys kicking around. Even without being The Wolverine of the team and having everything revolve around him, he got a ton of hype and praise in this series. He took the entire team on in training with ease, avoiding all their best shots and making them look like clumsy oafs, fought Deathstroke one-on-one and managed to not die in three seconds, infiltrated H.I.V.E. and Brother Blood's HQ as a fake member once each, led the team against Trigon, Starfire, Citadel worlds, Deathstroke, Terra's betrayal, and more, all while remaining pretty interesting as a character in his own right, dealing with the fact that the woman he loves was a battle-hardened warrior-princess.

-But hell, Grayson works well in nearly any book. He grew out of being Robin decades ago, and once he finally got a solo book, "Nightwing" (a name given to him by Wolfman, in fact) was quite successful (though the Bat-editors have repeatedly-screwed-over the Titans editors regarding him), but didn't produce any villains who mattered much across the DC line. But the way he plays off of Bruce Wayne & the rest of the Bat Family is everything... the weird father/son dynamic (they had a nice talk during the wedding of Donna Troy & Terry Long about why Bruce never adopted Dick like he was planning to do with Jason), plus how Dick's an older-brother figure for Tim, etc. His mutual attraction to The Huntress, his REAL relationship with Barbara Gordon, and even the way every lady in the DCU wants to jump his bones (a fact reflected in DC's female fanbase). Robin/Nightwing/Batman stands as sort of a beacon that Bruce Wayne isn't a TOTAL ass-munch, because after all, he's responsible for raising one of the best heroes out there.

-Dick stats up more like a Mini-Batman who is nonetheless more acrobatic- his Initiative & Agility are higher, as is his Acrobatics Skill, and he packs Ultimate & Skill Mastery for the latter also. At a full PL 10 defensively, Dick is the hardest Titans character to hit aside from possibly Wally going at full speed. Generally speaking, Dick has a hard time with anyone who can beat or equalize Bruce, but he can still hold his own. With his Escrima Sticks, he makes PL 9.5 on offense, being an accurate but less-damaging Titan. It's well-established in the books that he is EASILY the best fighter of the group, and can fight anyone on the squad on a pretty even keel, despite his lack of super-powers.

-As Nightwing, Dick gains quite a bit of talent, especially with his athleticism, Escrima Sticks, and Defenses. To formulate a DCU Nightwing, I'd probably just add Leadership and maybe some extra Equipment to the menu. Nightwing stacks up fairly well against my Daredevil build, actually, and they're an interesting study in contrasts. Nightwing is a fair bit more Skilled (he's more of a Detective than DD), has a few more Combat Advantages, and 12 points of Equipment, making him more expensive (especially considering DD spends 17 points on Sensory Powers unrelated to most combat). Combat-wise, they pair up pretty well, and a fight between them is probably quite even. That makes sense to me- Dick is the son of BATMAN, so of course he's fairly pricey, but he wasn't Bruce's equal yet, and the Animated Batman was a bit weaker than Comics Batman, allowing Comics Daredevil to overtake him.

---

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haha, speaking of heroes who've had some awful costumes over the years... Until he got the top one, he generally always looked like a tool.

NIGHTWING (Dick Grayson, aka Robin I)- Mid-'80s
Created By:
Bob Kane, Bill Finger & Jerry Robinson
First Appearance: Detective Comics #38 (April 1940)
Role: The Sidekick, The Comic Relief (to Batman), The Bristling Sidekick, Stoic Leader Guy (to The Titans)
Group Affiliations: Batman & Robin, The Teen Titans
PL 9 (191)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 10 (+17)
Athletics 10 (+13)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+15)
Deception 7 (+11)
Expertise (Streetwise) 7 (+11)
Expertise (History) 2 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+6)
Insight 6 (+10)
Intimidation 1 (+5)
Investigation 8 (+12)
Perception 8 (+12)
Persuasion 4 (+8)
Ranged Combat (Wing-Dings) 4 (+13)
Stealth 6 (+13)
Technology 3 (+7)
Treatment 1 (+5)
Vehicles 7 (+11)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Attack, Equipment 12 (Bat-cycle, Utility Belt), Evasion, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Grab Finesse, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Critical (Wing-Dings), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 1 (Various), Leadership, Luck, Power Attack, Precise Attack (Ranged/Cover), Prone Fighting, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5, Set-Up 2, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics), Takedown 2, Teamwork, Tracking, Ultimate Acrobatics Skill, Uncanny Dodge

Equipment:
"Bat-cycle" Motorcycle (Medium, Strength 1, Speed 6- 120 mph, Defense 10, Toughness 8, Remote Control (11)

"Utility Belt"
Camera, CommLink, Audio Recorder, Handcuffs, Binoculars, Mini-Tracer, Night Vision Goggles, Flashlight, Gas Mask, Multi-Tool, Rebreather, Cutting Torch (12)
"Grapple Gun" Movement 1 (Swinging) (2)

"Choking Gas" Affliction 6 (Fort; Dazed & Vulnerable/Defenseless & Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cloud +2, Ranged, Extra Condition) (Diminished Range -1) (29) -- (32)
    AE: "Wing-Dings" Blast 3 (Feats: Homing, Ricochet) (Extras: Multiattack) (Diminished Range -1) (10)
    AE: "Smoke Pellets" Concealment (Visuals) 2 (Extras: Attack, Area- 30ft. Cloud +2) (10)
-- (57 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +16 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Escrima Sticks +15 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Batarangs +13 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Choking Gas +6 Area (+6 Affliction, DC 16)
Initiative +11

Defenses:
Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +4, Fortitude +7, Will +10

Complications:
Motivation (Justice)- When Dick Grayson lost his parents, he became as lionized against crime as Bruce Wayne.
Responsibility (Gotham City, Bludhaven)- Dick considers himself Gotham & Bludhaven's protector.
Responsibility (Socializing Bruce)- Alongside Alfred, Dick is the "normalizing" influence in Bruce Wayne's life. Without them, he is dangerously close to permanent brooding & introspection. He's there to help Bruce crack a smile once in a while.
Relationship (Barbara Gordon)- Dick & Barbara engage in some light or serious flirtation.
Enemy (The Joker, The Pengiun, etc.)- All of Batman's Rogues also want Nightwing dead.
Reputation (Lawless Vigilante)- Batman is generally more frightening to the people of Gotham, but what Robin/Nightwing does is still technically illegal.
Rivalry (Batman)- Though Bruce raised Dick from the age of twelve, Dick is now struggling to make his own way as a hero, and is occasionally twisting under Batman's shadow.
Relationship (Starfire)- Dick & Kory fell in love while they were both Teen Titans, and despite their differences (namely that she was a warrior unafraid of killing, while Dick was strongly motivated to protect all life), nearly married. Because this is comics, they eventually broke up, and the relationship is generally only paid lip service these days.
Relationship (Barbara Gordon)- Oracle was once a teen crush of Dick's, but as they grew older, they matured into one of those "kinda/kinda not" relationships most Bat-people have.
Relationship (The Titans)- Dick grew up with Aqualad, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash & Speedy, but also thinks of Cyborg, Changeling & Raven as siblings. As the leader, he had to be the responsible, brooding, intense one, and took himself very seriously as a result. They remain his dearest friends.
Responsibility (So Very Handsome...)- Despite not really using it like the Advantage "Attractive", Dick is very, very good-looking. This draws him a lot of attention from the female super-crowd, which he usually has to deal with. He's had near-stalkers (Bette "Flamebird" Kane), bad girls (The Huntress, Tarantula, probably a bunch of other) and more.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 90--45 / Advantages: 48 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 16 (191)

-The Nightwing of the 1980s was a bit lower-tier, not operating solo as much as Dick did by the '90s & 2000s, where he came into his own in his Bludhaven-based solo book. As Titans Leader, he's ALMOST as good, but still only PL 9 all over.

Image

ROBIN I (Dick Grayson)- Young Sidekick
Created By:
Bob Kane, Bill Finger & Jerry Robinson
First Appearance: Detective Comics #38 (April 1940)
Role: The Sidekick, The Comic Relief (to Batman)
Group Affiliations: Batman & Robin, The Teen Titans
PL 8 (157)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 9 (+15)
Athletics 9 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+12)
Deception 6 (+9)
Expertise (Streetwise) 3 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+5)
Insight 5 (+8)
Investigation 6 (+9)
Perception 6 (+9)
Persuasion 4 (+7)
Ranged Combat (Batarangs) 4 (+11)
Stealth 8 (+14)
Technology 6 (+12)
Treatment 1 (+5)
Vehicles 9 (+13)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Equipment 9 (Utility Belt), Evasion, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Grab Finesse, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Critical (Batarangs), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Luck, Power Attack, Precise Attack (Ranged/Cover), Ranged Attack 3, Set-Up, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics), Takedown, Teamwork, Tracking, Ultimate Acrobatics Skill, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Hits Hard For a Kid" Strength-Damage +1 [1]

Equipment:
"Utility Belt"
Camera, CommLink, Audio Recorder, Handcuffs, Binoculars, Mini-Tracer, Night Vision Goggles, Flashlight, Gas Mask, Multi-Tool, Rebreather, Cutting Torch (12)
"Grapple Gun" Movement 1 (Swinging) (2)

"Choking Gas" Affliction 6 (Fort; Dazed & Vulnerable/Defenseless & Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cloud +2, Ranged, Extra Condition) (Diminished Range -1) (29) -- (32)
AE: "Batarangs" Blast 3 (Feats: Homing, Ricochet) (Extras: Multiattack) (Diminished Range -1) (10)
AE: "Smoke Pellets" Concealment (Visuals) 2 (Extras: Attack, Area- 30ft. Cloud +2) (10)
-- (45 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Batarangs +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Choking Gas +6 Area (+6 Affliction, DC 16)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +13 (DC 23), Toughness +2 (+3 D.Roll), Fortitude +4, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Justice)- When Dick Grayson lost his parents, he became as lionized against crime as Bruce Wayne.
Responsibility (Gotham City)- Dick considers himself Gotham's protector.
Responsibility (Socializing Bruce)- Alongside Alfred, Dick is the "normalizing" influence in Bruce Wayne's life. Without them, he is dangerously close to permanent brooding & introspection. He's there to help Bruce crack a smile once in a while.
Relationship (Barbara Gordon)- Dick & Barbara engage in some light or serious flirtation.
Enemy (The Joker, The Pengiun, etc.)- All of Batman's Rogues also want Robin dead.
Reputation (Lawless Vigilante)- Batman is generally more frightening to the people of Gotham, but what Robin/Nightwing does is still technically illegal.

Total: Abilities: 64 / Skills: 80--40 / Advantages: 36 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 16 (157)

-A young Robin as Sidekick to Batman is probably the best of the Kid Sidekicks in his youth, being PL 7 on offense, PL 8 on defense. Despite being really small, he's exceptionally hard to hit.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby Stormson » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:33 pm

Funny note on Risk. He turned good during the sinestro corps war and tried to fight Superboy prime for revenge and got his -other- arm ripped off as well, so now he's armless.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby Kreuzritter » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Stormson wrote:Funny note on Risk. He turned good during the sinestro corps war and tried to fight Superboy prime for revenge and got his -other- arm ripped off as well, so now he's armless.


he also went bad BEFORE johns wrote either incident, being cited as doing the petty crime thing in one of those 'where are they now' stories you used to get in DC's 'secret files and origins' issues
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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby Sidious » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:39 pm

RE: Nightwing:

I'm scared. I was just informed of and looked up "Finger Stripes" on the internet.

I need an adult.
Live fast. Love hard. Die with your mask on.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby Jabroniville » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:07 pm

ImageImage

PROTECTOR (Jason Hart)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & George Perez
First Appearance: The New Teen Titans Anti-Drug Special #1 (Jan. 1983)
Role: Replacement Character
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans (ally)
PL 5 (89)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+7)
Athletics 5 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 6 (+9)
Expertise (Drug Fighter) 5 (+8)
Insight 2 (+5)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 3 (+6)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Vehicles 3 (+7)

Advantages:
Defensive Attack, Equipment 1 (Swingline & Stuff), Fast Grab, Improved Disarm, Ranged Attack, Skill Mastery (Drug Fighter), Takedown

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (The War on Drugs)

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 10 (89)

-Oh, Protector. All because of some copywrite snafu (Robin was linked via Batman to Nabisco, so when rival company Keebler produced the Teen Titans Anti-Drug issue, they couldn't use the already-drawn Robin in the story anymore), he was basically a recoloured Robin. I mean, they literally used white-out and ink over the existing artwork to turn Robin into "Protector", who had the same haircut and did all the standard "Robin" things- piloting the T-Jet, taking center-stage, etc. They also altered Starfire's costume a fair bit (though I didn't even notice until I saw someone point it out- they removed the Super-Cleavage Neckline. Given a quickie origin (he pretended to be a superhero to save his cousin from drugs, but ended up having to play the role for real, and ended up becoming an "honorary" Titan), he did nothing except for that one Anti-Drug issue. So this one-time joker is leading the team, giving orders, flying the T-Jet, all of it... and he's only appeared in joke books afterwards (like at a Titans West recruiting party).

-The issue's not a bad one, though the druggie kids are SO goofy-looking that it almost becomes funny. I mean, the short, portly white kid with the red afro standing there, listing off his addictions like it's a Peer Counseling group meeting? Just too funny. Though the issue gets to be pretty hardcore with the depictions of what drugs do to some people, and the kids ARE probably a better representative of the comic's core audience at the time (12-14 year olds). I also kind of liked the bit where Speedy pointed out that "WE can't help the kids. All we can do is show them the results, and HOPE they made the right choice". Some regular "Teen Titans" issues would more-or-less make the same point, showing a handful of runaway kids get killed in a drug war, a runaway girl get rejected AGAIN by her father (who'd kicked her out of the house for being "a little SLUT" who got knocked-up at 13), and at the very end, when the bad guys get caught... we see another couple kids get back into the life. It's like a pre-"Wire" "The Wire".

-A VERY weak character, he's just a PL 5 version of what Nightwing or Jason Todd would've been without the Batman to guide them. He's not THAT bad per se, but let's just say that The Enforcers would probably kick his ass.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby The One Phil » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:43 am

I can't help but notice that despite you pointing out just how totally hot Nightwing is you didn't actually give him the Attractive advantage. You might want to add that in... Dick Grayson is one of the rare male heroes who pretty much needs to be given that one, he turns heads constantly and when he turns on the charm women just melt.

Speaking as a gay guy, he's pretty much occupying the niche for me that Power Girl occupies for a lot of you heterosexual guys :D

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Re: Jab's Builds: Arsenal, Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk

Postby Arkrite » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:03 am

The One Phil wrote:I can't help but notice that despite you pointing out just how totally hot Nightwing is you didn't actually give him the Attractive advantage


He did reference it in one of the complications.

Jabroniville wrote:Responsibility (So Very Handsome...)- Despite not really using it like the Advantage "Attractive", Dick is very, very good-looking. This draws him a lot of attention from the female super-crowd, which he usually has to deal with. He's had near-stalkers (Bette "Flamebird" Kane), bad girls (The Huntress, Tarantula, probably a bunch of other) and more.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby ClassDunce » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:06 am

The One Phil wrote:Speaking as a gay guy, he's pretty much occupying the niche for me that Power Girl occupies for a lot of you heterosexual guys :D


I'm more of a Catman guy these days, I prefer my sex objects wider in the shoulders, but I agree with Phil.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby Devastation Bob » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:04 am

-The Wolfman/Perez era of the Titans is one of my all-time favourite comic book run (hovering between that and Byrne/Claremont's X-Men run from the same era), and yet that's only ONE of the times where Dick Grayson was used at his best. It's kinda funny that such a great character could be created out of the IDIOTIC idea that an adult crimefighter would throw a pair of tights on a pre-teen and have him fight dangerous criminals. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a Cop running around with a kid dressed as a Teen Cop, with his own little gun & badge?

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Re: Jab's Builds: Kole, Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing

Postby Jabroniville » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:21 am

Image

TEMPEST (Garth, aka Aqualad I)
Created By:
Robert Bertnstein & Ramona Fradon
First Appearance: Adventure Comics #269 (Feb. 1960)
Role: Teen Sidekick, The Bristling Sidekick, The Normal Guy
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans, The Titans, Atlantis
PL 10 (175)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (History) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Magic) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Atlantis) 8 (+10)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Perception 6 (+8)
Persuasion 8 (+11)
Ranged Combat (Special Powers) 2 (+10)
Stealth 5 (+9)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Favoured Environment (Underwater), Improved Aim, Improved Hold, Ranged Attack 4, Ritualist, Set-Up 2, Teamwork

Powers:
"Undersea Capabilities"
Swimming 8 (60 mph) [8]
Movement (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Immunity 3 (Pressure, Drowning, Cold) [3]
Senses 3 (Low-Light Vision, Extended Hearing & Scent) [3]

"Vague Magical Abilities"
"Water Control" Move Object 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range) (Flaws: Limited to Water) (21) -- [30]
    Dynamic AE: "Eye Beams" Energy Blast 8 (Feats: Accurate, Dynamic) (18)
    Dynamic AE: "Thermal Control" Environment 3 (Heat 2) (Feats: Dynamic) (Flaws: Limited to Within Water) (4)
    Dynamic AE: "Cold Control" Environment 3 (Heat 2) (Feats: Dynamic) (Flaws: Limited to Within Water) (4)
    Dynamic AE: "Iced Water" Snare 9 (Feats: Dynamic) (Flaws: Source- Water) (19)
    AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Movement 3) (Extras: Portal +2) (12)
Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Eye Beams +12 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Iced Water +10 (+9 Ranged Affliction, DC 19)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +8, Fortitude +8, Will +8

Complications:
Relationship (Dolphin & Cerdian)- Garth eventually hooked up with Aquaman's old squeeze, and had a son with her.
Relationship (Aquaman)- Garth sometimes rankles under the spectre of his mentor and father-figure, who is often brusque and controlling.
Weakness (Lack of Water)- Atlanteans require more water than do ordinary humans.
Prejudice (Purple Eyes)- Garth was born with purple eyes, marking him for death by his weird culture. Aquaman saved his life, but some still mistrust him.
Disabled (Partially Colour-Blind)- Garth is largely-unable to see the differences between black, green & blue. I've never seen this come up.

Total: Abilities: 80 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 46 / Defenses: 14 (175)

-Aqualad may possess the record for the stupidest name in comic book history. You could do all the talking up comics you want to to people, then bust out the name "Aqualad" and they would pretty much crap their pants with laughter on the spot- when I was a kid looking at some of the DC Cards to compare to the cooler Marvel Cards, I came across THIS loser and pretty much decided then and there that Marvel had to've been the superior company. And he didn't really do much in the Titans either; he was the least-used of the Fab Five, frequently got replaced (writers at the time complained that both he & Aquaman were useless, in that they were always weak without water), and wasn't even a fixture of the Wolfman/Perez books, which even Speedy showed up for occasionally. His biggest moment was having his girlfriend Tula (Aquagirl) die in the Crisis as one of the many "these characters suck, so we're using this opportunity to kill them" deaths in that series- poor Garth wasn't even a major fixture in AQUAMAN books by this point!

-It would be YEARS later before Phil Jiminez would take control of the character, building him up from basically nothing and turning him into a more powerful new hero with a half-decent codename & costume (for once). The newly-named Tempest earned the honour of being the only Titan other than Kid Flash to not only match his mentor's power, but surpass them. Eye blasts, Magic, water control, and all sorts of other things give him a HUGE edge over Aquaman, all thanks to Phil Jiminez turning him into a pet project character (which also seemed to make Tempest an icon to gay readers, despite not being gay himself- the very gay Jiminez may have had something to do with that as well :)). He became a major fixture in the '90s Titans series (which often used him as the normal, NOT-OBSESSED member of a team full of ex-junkies, identity-seekers, immature brats, and mother's-lover-sleepers-with), in Aquaman books, and had a bunch of weird crap going on thanks to the Spectre whupping him in Final Crisis. DC killed him in the opening salvo of "Blackest Night" amongst a score of other deaths, and we never saw him again.

-Tempest gains a huge power boost thanks to his many upgrades, attaching some Magic (ie. "Whatever power the writer currently wants him to have to get out of a story") to his already increasing abilities. And he has shown some TREMENDOUS abilities in the comics, as he whips out a massive teleportation beam into the past taking ALL OF ATLANTIS with him. I chose to showcase those sorts of things as modifications of his magical might with Hero Points put in, as well as his Ritualist Advantage. Primarily, though, he's just gonna be using his Eye Blasts and controlling water with Thermal and Cold Control attached to them as weapons.

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AQUALAD I (Garth)
Created By:
Robert Bertnstein & Ramona Fradon
First Appearance: Adventure Comics #269 (Feb. 1960)
Role: Teen Sidekick, Shy Guy, The Normal Guy
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans, The Titans, Atlantis
PL 7 (97)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Expertise (Atlantis) 4 (+5)
Insight 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Favoured Environment (Underwater), Ranged Attack 2, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Undersea Capabilities"
Swimming 8 (60 mph) [8]
Movement (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Immunity 3 (Pressure, Drowning, Cold) [3]
Senses 3 (Low-Light Vision, Extended Hearing & Scent) [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Aquaman)- Garth sometimes rankles under the spectre of his mentor and father-figure, who is often brusque and controlling.
Prejudice (Purple Eyes)- Garth was born with purple eyes, marking him for death by his weird culture. Aquaman saved his life, but some still mistrust him.
Disabled (Partially Colour-Blind)- Garth is largely-unable to see the differences between black, green & blue. I've never seen this come up.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 16 / Defenses: 7 (97)

-Sidekick-era Aqualad is pretty ineffectual compared to Tempest, and is notable (especially retroactively) for being underconfident. In the 1980s, he only made EVER so few cameos in the main book, but probably hit PL 8 by that point- I only really remember him running around with his goofy afro (George Perez LOVED drawing white men with afros back in the day, despite Cyborg having pretty plain hair for the time- I think he took it as an excuse to draw even MORE detail on people than their normally would have been :). and never really being important.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing, Temp

Postby Jabroniville » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:17 pm

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AQUAGIRL III (Tula)
Created By:
Bob Haney & Nick Cardy
First Appearance: Aquaman #33 (May 1967)
Role: Girl Sidekick
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans, Atlantis
PL 8 (110)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+9)
Expertise (Atlantis) 6 (+7)
Insight 3 (+5)
Perception 3 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Favoured Environment (Underwater), Ranged Attack 2, Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Undersea Capabilities"
Swimming 8 (60 mph) [8]
Movement (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Immunity 3 (Pressure, Drowning, Cold) [3]
Senses 3 (Low-Light Vision, Extended Hearing & Scent) [3]

"Talk To Fish"
Comprehend 2 (Animals) (Flaws: Limited to Marine Life) [2]
Communication (Mental) 1 (Extras: Area) (Flaws: Limited to Marine Life) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Aqualad)- Tula & Garth were totes in love. When she dies, he mourns for like a decade of our-time.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 16--8 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 22 / Defenses: 9 (110)

-Aquagirl debuted in 1967, becoming the first Aquagirl to become a recurring character (the prior two were just one-shots meant for a single appearance- apparently teasing or testing the concept to judge fan reactions), and was your classic Princess Who Wanted MORE, meeting up with Aqualad and leaving the castle for the first time when she was 15. She helps out the original Teen Titans briefly, and led a rebellion against some random Atlantean villain who wanted the throne (do all Aquaman enemies do that?), but was never really a major character. I mean, she as THE GIRLFRIEND of a guy who wasn't even a major character! She helped out Garth again in the 1980s "Titans" series, aiding him against the H.I.V.E., but Wolfman & Perez obviously were never that taken with her, as she was one of the random side-victims during The Crisis on Infinite Earths, drowning in the poisoned water of Chemo. I recall that was pretty much her first and last appearance in that story, too.

-Her Refridgeration was pretty much the "Gwen Stacy" moment of poor Garth, who pretty much only showed up after that to mourn her passing (I mean, he wasn't a regular in ANY book, so "his girlfriend is dead" was the most important thing ABOUT him for a while). He FINALLY gains a sense of closure in his own Limited Series (Phil Jiminez based it off of his own feelings after his boyfriend/partner died of AIDS), and they finally stop mentioning her every time Garth shows up. It helps that he married another girl. Of course, then she came back as a Black Lantern and killed him- some women you can just never escape. She's since returned in "The Nu52" as an Aquaman supporting character, actually without Garth this time (who's only sorta mentioned in passing), and there was a fourth one in the Aquaman & Titans books in the 2000s.

-Tula's pretty plain as far as Undersea characters go (nobody BUT Aquaman can do that "Control Sea Life" thing, right? None of the bios mention those powers, just that they can Talk to them), being a PL 7 offensively & PL 7.5 defensively, to be a solid ally for PL 8 (by this point) Aqualad.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing, Temp

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:41 pm

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Image

OK I GET IT IT WAS THE 1980S NOW QUIT GIVING EVERY GUY A CURLY PERM!!!

AZRAEL I (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Another Artist (George Perez, Jose-Luis Garcias or Dan Jurgens, possibly)
First Appearance: The New Teen Titans #6 (March 1985)
Role: Forgotten Character, One-Note Guy
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans (Ally)
PL 8 (87)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+8)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+2)
Technology 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Defensive Roll, Evasion, Favoured Environment (Airborne), Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Winged Alien Physiology"
Flight 6 (120 mph) (Flaws: Winged) [6]
"Wing Slash" Strength-Damage +2 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Wing Slash +9 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +9

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +4 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (Unknown Origins)- Azrael's past is unknown- he showed up after crash-landing his spaceship on Earth an indeterminate number of years ago. He does not even know his own name- only taking that of an Angel because he's a winged dude and the Church of Blood wanted to use him.
Relationship (Lilith Clay)- Azrael basically fell head-over-heels in obsessive, childlike love for Lilith Clay (How? Donna Troy & Starfire were RIGHT THERE). Pretty much every single thing he says revolves around the redheaded Titan.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 8 / Defenses: 14 (87)

-Oh MAN was Azrael a chore to read through. I've been searching through my comics but I can't find it- I'm pretty sure they got a TON of letters from fans complaining about how freakin' annoying this one-note dork was. He came across like a poor attempt at Lady-Focused Fanservice, in that he was a shirtless, pretty-boy Angel who flew down and fell instantly in love with "Normal Girl" Lilith Clay. But the sole breadth of his personality was spent fawning over Lilith NON-STOP- it was the most putrid, awful lovey-dovey dialogue in comics. The only possible comparison I could give would be Natalie Portman's dialogue in the last "Star Wars" movie. So the fans pretty much barfed all over this guy, and his permanent link to non-Titan Lilith made him not matter all that much, so he was quickly shuffled under the rug and forgotten about. His last general appearance was when Lilith had to confront her evil mother Thia, and he disappeared between then (about 1985) and the late '90s' "JLA/Titans" series, where he didn't even get any dialogue! It's little things like this that arguably knock "The Teen Titans" off the neck-and-neck race between them and the "X-Men" series of the same time.

-Azrael is kind of a loser who couldn't hold a candle to the other Titans- I mean, he's just a FLYING GUY, and doesn't even get any other special angelic powers or anything. He's only barely PL 8, and only makes it fully by Dodging and with a "Wing Slash" (I FIGURE someone with wings could do that, but I don't think he ever did).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Hawk & Dove, Argent, Risk, Nightwing, Temp

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:35 pm

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Image
Image
Image

CYBORG (Victor Stone)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & George Perez
First Appearance: DC Comics Presents #26 (Oct. 1980)
Role: Angry Black Man, Angry Freak, Permanent Status-Quo Guy
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans, The Justice League
PL 10 (185)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 1
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+12)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+7)
Expertise (Streetwise) 3 (+7)
Expertise (Sports) 4 (+8) (Uses Agility)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 5 (+7)
Investigation 4 (+5)
Perception 7 (+8)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Technology 8 (+12)
Vehicles 9 (+12)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Diehard, Equipment (Minor Tech Tools), Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical 2 (Unarmed, Ranged Weapons), Improved Hold, Jack-of-All-Trades, Ranged Attack 9, Set-Up, Startle, Teamwork

Powers:
"Molybdenum Steel Body Parts"
Power-Lifting 1 (12 tons) [1]
Protection 2 [2]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
"Extending Limbs" Elongation 2 (Flaws: Limited to Arms) [1]

"Boot Jets" Leaping 5 (250 feet) [5]
"Computer Interface" Communication (Technological) 2 [8]
"Telescopic Eye & Sound Enhancer" Senses 5 (Extended & Infravision, Extended & Ultra-Hearing, Radio Sense) [5]

"White Sound Generator- Loud Setting" Dazzle Hearing 10 (20) -- [24]
    AE: "White Sound Generator- Blaster" Blast 10 (Diminished Range -1) (19)
    AE: "White Sound Generator- Wide-Angle Blast" Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cone +1/2) (15)
    AE: "Finger Laser" Blast 8 (Feats: Accurate) (17)
    AE: "Grappling Hook" Movement 1 (Swinging) (2)
Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
White Sound- Dazzle +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
White Sound- Blaster +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
White Sound- Wide-Angle Cone +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Finger Laser +12 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +8, Fortitude +7, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Helping Out On the Streets)- While his parents were well-off, Vic hung around with a bad crowd in his rebellious days, and recognizes the struggles of those who live on the streets of New York. He watched a lot of friends die because of addictions as well. His time on the streets gave him a near-permanent slang ("lissen" for "listen", "mebbe" instead of "maybe", etc.), but he rejected the gang he used to hang out with.
Relationship (Parents)- Silas & Elinor Stone were Victor's scientist parents, who were often strict and overly-obsessed with their own research. Victor rebelled early and often, and when he was injured as a result of his parents' experiments (and his mother killed), then turned into "a freak" by his father, Victor was enraged ("I HATE you, old man! I HATE YOU!"). It took him years to get over his hatred for his father.
Relationship (Garfield Logan, aka "Changeling")- Though Vic was frequently annoyed by his teammate the "talking salad", he & Gar grew into best friends, making fun of each other out of love, rather than sheer annoyance.
Relationship (Sarah Simms)- It was love at first sight for Victor, when he first met the pretty blonde who cared for children with prosthetic limbs (Vic could relate). However, her heart belonged to another, and Vic learned to love her as a friend instead.
Relationship (Dr. Sarah Charles)- The other Sarah in Vic's life was a black scientist at S.T.A.R. Labs, who helped him recuperate after he had his cybernetic parts replaced with human-looking versions (they soon broke down). They dated for some time, but split up when he lost his humanity as "Cyberion".
Relationship (Grandparents)- Victor's ever-amusing grandparents are a couple of old fossils from the Chitlin Circuit of travelling vaudeville performers ("you couldn't knock them off with nukes"). They boss him around effortlessly, and don't put up with any of his lip (or his whining about his looks).
---
Prejudice (Freak)- Victor cannot pass for an ordinary human- his cybernetic limbs and head make him easily stand out in a crowd. He draws fear and disgust from some, and cannot maintain a secret identity.
Responsibility (Losing Humanity)- Vic occasionally gets lost in the fact that he is not entirely human- at times his body is much more mechanical, causing him to shut himself down from humanity. In the '90s run he was almost entirely mechanical, and later he became a full robot in the "Technis Era". A search to become human often motivates him.
Weakness (Magnetics)- As a cyborg, Victor is prone to being frozen or trapped by powerful magnets. Seriously, this happened to him quite a bit.

Total: Abilities: 72 / Skills: 54--27 / Advantages: 22 / Powers: 48 / Defenses: 16 (185)

-Cyborg was your standard "angry black man" in the initial part of Wolfman's Titans run- intentionally so, as he would give a reason for his rage and bitterness (his father turned him into a scary metal man), and then immediately redeem him as a running storyline in the '80s, as Victor Stone made friends (including Sarah Simms, a great character who sadly never got to hook up with Victor because Wolfman felt it was too generic to gave the "black man/white woman" plot device), helped the Titans through some tough times, and became overall one of the greatest black characters comics ever produced. Though he often talked a BIT too "street" by modern sensibilities (it probably fit more in the '80s, and let's be honest- that whole "Tough-talking" thing came from SOMEWHERE so it's not like they just made it up), they avoided the whole "Jive-Talkin'" thing that hampered the '60s Titans. All in all, Cyborg is one of the most-iconic members of the most-popular era of the Titans.

-Cyborg even got to be on the "Super Friends" show in its later years, thanks to him being one of DC's most-notable black characters at the time. And he's served on both the Robinson Justice League, AND the modern Johns-led incarnation in the Nu52, pretty much for the same reason he was on "Super Friends". But he's no mere filler or Token Character (like Black Vulcan/Lightning ended up being, and like how Avengers-related media always has to shoehorn in The Falcon if they don't want to use Black Panther)- Cyborg's actually EARNED his place, and isn't like Hawkgirl, who was shoehorned into the later "Justice League" cartoon because A) they wanted another chick, and B) Bruce Timm thought her mask was cool (not that Shayera didn't EVENTUALLY prove her worth, mind you)- Cyborg could easily be transferred to the big leauges. The only tricky thing is that his original form is a tad too "Seventies" in style- the wide collar part of the uniform, headband and thigh-high metal bits that resemble boots kind of making him look dated, so most modern artists mess with the dynamics of it to create a more modern character.

-That's not to say some crap didn't happen to him: He got turned into an even more cybernetic, comatose monster in Wolfman's later, crappier Titans years (I have some of them, so I'm not just assuming that things were worse). Then he turned into Cyberion, and joined the Technis Collective and left for the stars, eventually setting off the giant JLA/Titans crossover. Then he ended up merged with the Omegadrone, a shapeshifting metal dude taking a Plastic Man/Steel role in the Devin Grayson years. THEN he became a normal human with Omegadrone powers, finally living his dream. THEN, of course, they did the CLASSIC comics-move of injuring him JUST ENOUGH to turn him back into Classic Cyborg (ie. Back To Basics Syndrome, which states that NO amount of evolution will ever be permanent), which is really silly when he'd been out of that form for a decade. But I still remember awesome Cyborg under Wolfman/Perez, where he didn't get alot of pure focus (though there were the awesome issues where he became more human-looking, but his body rejected the modifications under stress, after all the work he put into working out), but was the ultimate supporting buddy character; smart, sarcastic, tough and streetwise.

-For 2nd Edition, I had to try REALLY hard to get Vic down to PL 10 (150); thank God I don't bother with all that noise in 3e. The guy's a natural athlete, but also smart (his intellect was added to a LOT in later years, making him probably INT 7-8 or something), fast and with plenty of super-powers hidden in that cybernetic body of his. A summation of his powers is pretty hard to find, as they upgraded him from time to time, but this is as good as any for the 1980s era of Cyborg, I think- he tended to just run up, use his limbs to block some enemy fire, and blast 'em "with a couple zillion decibels o' white sound!", generally a closer-range Damage effect. Plus he's got a more accurate Laser, movement powers and more.

-As the Fuller-Conversion Cyborg, Vic was left being less defensive, but tougher (likely Toughness 10-11 total), with Multiattack Blasts on him. Of course, he had pretty much no Presence left by that point, and his Skills probably took a nosedive, too. During the era where he was a Golden Shapeshifter, he attains a kind of low-level Variable/Shapeshift that makes him act more like Plastic Man with some varied tools.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Argent, Risk, Nightwing, Tempest, Cyborg

Postby Jabroniville » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:48 pm

And OMFG... I was amazed when I saw it- flipping through some random Titans back-issues to research Azrael, I came across the weird "Titans (vs) Thia" war involving the Titans of Myth, and I saw something astounding. It's a real example of STARFIRE'S SUPER-STRENGTH!! It drove me NUTS that she all of a sudden gained a huge power upgrade in more-recent years, as even this '80s-era Titans doesn't depict her as a powerhouse- the "JLA/Titans" issue bios and the "Who's Who" bio left strength out of her powers as well, leading me to think that it was an entirely new invention. After all, all she really did to show obvious strength in the "Titans" book was her staff-fighting with Donna Troy, and even THAT was basically a balance game that generally saw one or the other get tossed into the drink rather than actually injured- certainly no real example of super-human strength. I know I've gone into endless rants about that on here before- bitching about how writers just changed the character around.

And yet here she is in this story, grabbing the massive Spear from a Mythological Giant, shoving him onto ANOTHER spear, then carrying the giant weapon (at least three times the length of her body) through the air, TOSSING IT into the back of another Giant, killing him! Holy CRAP- I've been wrong the whole time! She WAS super-strong, and later writers just FORGOT about it! I am humbled and amazed.

It's also a funny example of how little Wolfman & Perez ever seemed to establish the limits of their characters- Donna Troy is FAMOUSLY vaguely-powerful during this time (she's super-strong, but her level on the power-tiers is absolutely unclear- she barely appears above Spider-Man level in these books, yet most of her Flying Brick contemporaries are mega-powerhouses who can lift HUNDREDS of tons!), and Raven's powers are often left vague as well. I guess they were always more interested in all that "Characterization" stuff. The NERVE.

Also there's boobs in these issues. One shot of Tethys from far away isn't drawn with her Ariel clamshell-bra, leaving nipples visible (it's a faraway shot), and the third issue features Mnemosyne (Titaness of Memory) doffing her clothes to show their past, and though her body is cloaked in "Modesty Shadows", the artist (not Perez) drew a VERY clear nipple sticking off to the side. Changeling's reaction is pretty priceless. Didn't know that was even allowed back in the '80s, especially in a "regular" comic like Titans.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Argent, Risk, Nightwing, Tempest, Cyborg

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:15 pm

If memory serves, this was in "The New Teen Titans" volume 2, when Volume 1 had become Tales of the Teen Titans.
Volume 2 was printed on heavier stock, was sent directly to comic books stores (and wasn't available on newstands or grocery stores), and didn't have to be sent through the Comics Code Authority for their approval. In 1984, this was a big deal.

I believe the artist was Jose-Luis Garcias, who was also the artist who designed Azrael (not George Perez)

The DC Heroes game (Mayfair) gave Kory a 6 STR and Azrael a 7 STR (which coincide with DCA 6 and 7 actually) and I believe they actually had more input from the DC staff then Green Ronin had.

I never had a problem having greater than human strength. But I swear that the spear you mentioned was her largest strength feat she ever had between her debut and the Titans Hunt.
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