Dr. Strange Revamp

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The Trapster
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Postby The Trapster » Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:49 pm

Nathaniel Essex wrote:
The Marvel Knights line is sorta like the Ultiamte line (which I also agree is utter crap),
Right which is why the Ultimate line is selling so well. I like Birthright. I like the Ultimates (when it comes out). I like most of the Marvel Knight stuff. The ratio for crap is far lesser in these new venues than with the old 'nothing ever changes' lines. Why is it whenever they reach out to the younger community all the 'long-term' comic collectors start getting in a big hissy fit. It's really quite frustrating.
And Nathaniel spitting back on us doesn't do any good either!

As far as the younger people are concerned, I started in comics when there was already 15 or twenty years of history. Guess my favorite books should not have be The Fantastic Four and Spider-man.

Listen you've got your NEW no history stories. That is no reason to take away the books the old guys/gals love.
Why is it whenever they reach out to the younger community all the 'long-term' comic collectors start getting in a big hissy fit.
Well you welcome kid. We are proud to have created a hobby that suvived long enough for you to tell us to "Like it or lump it."
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Postby Dr Archeville » Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:04 pm

Reaching out to the younger community is a good thing (and is what comics have done ever since they came out, to some degree). Changing things simply for the sake of change and/or pandering to the jaded Gen X teens & alienating/frustrating the longtime fans is a bad thing.

Or, to use your handle's namesake as an example, Mr. Essex -- how is changing Sinister from a cultured, hyper-inteligent, behind-the-scenes manipulator w/ his fingers in several pies (Mainstream Marvel Universe) into a simple gun-toting tattooed gangsta-thug with limited mind control (Ultimate X-Men Universe) a change for the better?
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Postby The Trapster » Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:53 pm

Dr Archeville wrote:... as an example, Mr. Essex -- how is changing Sinister from a cultured, hyper-inteligent, behind-the-scenes manipulator w/ his fingers in several pies (Mainstream Marvel Universe) into a simple gun-toting tattooed gangsta-thug with limited mind control (Ultimate X-Men Universe) a change for the better?
I'll take this one Nathaniel.
Because it sells! Because, "Change is Good". Because continuity is the hobgoblin of small minds!



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Postby JayBeeThoth » Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:52 pm

At his last "Cuppa Joe" panel Joe Quesada said Marvel titles would have more of that "shared world" feeling again. Mind you, he also announced earlier this year that the prices for many titles would be lower for us Canadians. I haven't seen that yet...

Doctor Strange desperately needs to do something new, in my view. Whenever he's appeared for a long time now, who was the villain? With rare exceptions Dormamu or Nightmare. He hasn't done much in the way of originality in years.

I trust JMS to come up with something new. Look at Supreme Power... he made the Squadron Supreme in a way that's fresh and interesting reading. He made Amazing Spider-Man worth reading again too.

I think he'll do the sane with this title.
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Postby The Trapster » Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:21 pm

JayBeeThoth wrote: Look at Supreme Power... he made the Squadron Supreme in a way that's fresh and interesting reading.
That is not the Squaddron Supreme. It is more like Miracle Man! :?
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Postby JayBeeThoth » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:15 am

The Trapster wrote:That is not the Squaddron Supreme. It is more like Miracle Man! :?

If they actually take over the world, then I'll see a comparison. So far I haven't seen it.
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Postby goodtremere » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:00 am

I think these revamps are generally a good thing. Comic history is getting to convoluted. It needs to be tweaked.

But I agree, Ultimate Sinister is pretty stupid.
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Postby The Trapster » Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:21 pm

goodtremere wrote:I think these revamps are generally a good thing. Comic history is getting to convoluted. It needs to be tweaked.

But I agree, Ultimate Sinister is pretty stupid.
Doesn't the revamp make it more convoluted?
Hum... probably not in the long run.
But, I know the original origin of the Joker (Red Hood). <Hey! I don't know the current origin! :o >


We should have a Seperate Topic for talking about this.
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Postby Dr Archeville » Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:29 pm

The Trapster wrote:But, I know the original origin of the Joker (Red Hood). <Hey! I don't know the current origin!


Far as I know, the Red Hood origin is still the only one ever been given. They in fact touched on Joker's past some fairly recently -- he found out (from Riddler) who it was that killed his (then-pregnant) wife, and is out for revenge.
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Postby The Trapster » Tue Aug 31, 2004 8:48 pm

Dr Archeville wrote:Far as I know, the Red Hood origin is still the only one ever been given.
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Postby Kit » Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:47 pm

Dr Archeville wrote:
The Trapster wrote:But, I know the original origin of the Joker (Red Hood). <Hey! I don't know the current origin!


Far as I know, the Red Hood origin is still the only one ever been given. They in fact touched on Joker's past some fairly recently -- he found out (from Riddler) who it was that killed his (then-pregnant) wife, and is out for revenge.


you know, for my money, the worst thing Alan Moore ever did was give the Joker a sympathetic origin in Killing Joke. The rest of Batman's villains have those. it was nice to have the one villain who was just an evil insane jerk. The good news was that other writers always treated it as a possible origin-just one of the many different versions the Joker remembers. if they are now having other sources back this, it leads to badness-like the fact that it should lead to the Joker getting a 'real name'
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Postby Dr Archeville » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:22 pm

Well, if I'm remembering the ish correctly, Joker said the name on the slip of paper was of the guy who'd killed his wife. He may well have been speaking of some other woman, or it may be all a halluciantion in his addled mind.

Killing Joke may've been the first to make Joker seem somewhat sympathetic, but it certianly ins't the only time. Most every time Joker's mind is 'fixed' (either by a dip in the Lazarus Pit or Martian Manhunter telepathically holding Joker's fractured psyche togehter), Joker's been shown to be truly remorseful of his actions, and that he realy cannot help himself. I vaguely recall an ish of.... something where The Spectre took the JLA into Joker's mind and showed them the kind & decent & wholseome person that resides deep within his core. 'Course, when the "fixative" procedure ends, Joker always reverts back to a complete psychopath, but I guess it's just DC's way of saying that no one -- or, rather, no mortal human -- is wholly 100% evil, and that anyone can be redeemed.
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