Justice League: War

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The_Watchman
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby The_Watchman » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:09 pm

saint_matthew wrote:No Justice LEague War for me, but I am watching DC's Necessary Evil. A cool documentary about DC Villains.


I thought it was about DC Editorial. *rimshot*
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby saint_matthew » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:01 pm

The_Watchman wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:No Justice LEague War for me, but I am watching DC's Necessary Evil. A cool documentary about DC Villains.


I thought it was about DC Editorial. *rimshot*


no, but they did try to justifty the NU52's villain selection right at the end & you end up laughing because it shows just how out of touch they are with there readership.
Last edited by saint_matthew on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby HappyDaze » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:17 am

saint_matthew wrote:
The_Watchman wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:No Justice LEague War for me, but I am watching DC's Necessary Evil. A cool documentary about DC Villains.


I thought it was about DC Editorial. *rimshot*


no, but they did try to justifty the NU52 right at the end & you end up laughing because it shows just how out of touch they are with there readership.

At the local comic store people go right on buying DC comics. They even say positive things about the animated films. Are you sure you're not out of touch with the readers? Serious question because, this forum is a pretty small pond overflowing with negativity I don't really see in the customers near me.

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Re: Justice League: War

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:39 pm

@HappyDaze: Dude, I'm not going to get into a fight with you over this. I know what you are trying to do (baiting an argument) and I'm not interested, so put me back on to your block list & move along, nothing to see here. If you feel like contributing to the actual conversation please feel free to, but if your just looking for an argument you are going to have to look somewhere else.
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby HappyDaze » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:46 pm

OK, I'll conclude that you are indeed out of touch with DC's more numerous customers. They enjoy it, they buy it, and you sit spewing negativity in the hidden corner of a very small forum. Enjoy yourself.

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Re: Justice League: War

Postby Darrin Kelley » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:44 pm

I find myself jumping to Matthew's defense on this. By saying one critical thing.

DC Comics shut down their own hosted forums only about 8 months after the launch of the New 52. Because they were getting hammered by their regular readership on those forums for their choice in direction. They chose to turn a deaf ear to legitimate consumer response to what they were putting out. They did so deliberately. It was a calculated move.

I'm a regular DC reader. But since the New 52 appeared, the number of DC books I have followed has steadily shrunk from a couple of hundred bucks in comics per month, to less than $50 a month. And the reason for this is their overall lack of story quality. And it has steadily gotten worse over time.

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Re: Justice League: War

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:45 pm

Darrin Kelley wrote:And the reason for this is their overall lack of story quality. And it has steadily gotten worse over time.


To be fair its not just DC, its also Marvel. I'm not sure where the fault lies anymore, be it writers, editors, bean counters, execs, or both companies trying to be movie studios, but the writing recently (over the last 3-5 years) has suffered because of it (both from a technical stand point & also an interesting writing standpoint). Maybe its time for some fresh blood on the writing & editorial side of the equation.

but that has nothing to do with JLA: War, so back on topic. No I'm not getting it, but I do suggest picking up Necessary Evil, its a good documentary about Super Villains.
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby Darrin Kelley » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:34 am

The big two are the ones who have really suffered. Editorial and writing have suffered in the face of hiring "star talent". They are so busy promoting "star talent" that they are ignoring actual product quality. And it's been going on since the 80's It's just gotten progressively worse over time.

They are doing it to themselves.

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Re: Justice League: War

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:46 am

Darrin Kelley wrote:The big two are the ones who have really suffered. Editorial and writing have suffered in the face of hiring "star talent". They are so busy promoting "star talent" that they are ignoring actual product quality. And it's been going on since the 80's It's just gotten progressively worse over time.

They are doing it to themselves.


That is certainly one element, another would be the constant focus on events, cross-overs, news release spoilers & gimmicks. Things like Angela being in Guardians of the Universe.... First they spoil the story by announcing it in a press release & then they try to pretend its a big old secret by putting the issue that it occurs into polybags to "protect the secret" from being spoiled... The very secret they themselves spoiled months before.

There appears to be a lot of blame to go around, but I think at the end of the day the problem is that the creators are just out of touch with the readerships legitimate desires. An as much as I hate to make blanket statements, maybe its time to cull the older writers, editors & creators, to let in some fresh blood & some new ideas across the board. An if that means changing the paradigm under which these people are employed, than that's what's going to happen. If that means ditching the exclusive contracts & making "skill hire" the go to system, than that's what should occur (not saying it is necessary, but if it turns out that it is, that's what's going to have to happen).

Having no special insight into the business side of the business, I can't even guess at where its going wrong, but its going wrong somewhere & that's where it needs to change.
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:55 pm

saint_matthew wrote:An as much as I hate to make blanket statements, maybe its time to cull the older writers, editors & creators, to let in some fresh blood & some new ideas across the board.

I'll happily do it for half of whatever the current star "talent" is making.
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby HappyDaze » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:49 am

I watched this last night. I really wanted to like it, but I could barely stay awake for the massive run-on action scene that makes up 80% of the movie. Shazam (Captain Marvel) seemed to turn into his hero self by saying "Shazam" but he also can just tell everyone his name without turning... He also punches less and throw lightning much more than I expected. Art is overall OK, but many of the voices are poor. I wouldn't mind having a version with the audio removed to use as a screen saver, but that's the most flattering thing I can say about this film.

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Re: Justice League: War

Postby Ares » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:40 pm

Just saw it as well and . . . . WOW that was bad. There were some elements I liked about it, but it was almost everything I disliked about the Nu-52 distilled into animated form. Warning, heavy spoilers to follow.

The Good
• The action could be quite entertaining at times. You’d get some genuinely fun moments like Batman dodging and judo-throwing Parademons around, and when they stop they see that they’ve all got explosives on them. Sometimes we’d get to see multiple heroes using teamwork, and that was cool.

• There were a couple of funny moments here and there. Hal had maybe one or two funny lines, and sometimes Cyborg and Shazam’s interactions reminded me of Vic and Beast Boy/Changeling’s interactions from the old Titans days.

• The animation was generally very smooth, fluid and polished. On a purely visual level, the film was rock solid.

• Darkseid was a genuine threat. I liked that he was HUGE, easily 10 or 15 feet tall, this giant dark god the heroes couldn’t face one-on-one. In some ways it felt like a return to the Superman: TAS Darkseid who Superman could not defeat straight up, before Justice League and Justice League Unlimited made him into Superman’s punching bag.

• The film actually showcased what a Superman vs Batman fight should look like if Batman didn’t have one-sided prep-time. Bruce was able to avoid Superman for a while, constantly moving, hitting him with weapon after weapon, keeping out of Superman’s way, but ultimately unable to harm him. Superman eventually gets the better of him, and it makes sense, because nothing in Batman’s normal arsenal should really do much to Superman at this point.

The Bad
• This basically felt like an attempt to emulate the feel of Marvel’s Avengers film, but done through a ‘Man of Steel’ lens and directed by Michael Bay. Like the Avengers film, it involves an alien invasion, a collection of heroes that don’t get along with each other, superheroes fighting each other, culminating in a big fight scene in a city that requires the heroes to work together to save the day, and the closing of a portal in order to win. Unlike the Avengers, the heroes are all unlikable, there is very little in the way of actual character growth, there’s even less in the way of genuinely witty dialogue, the pacing is all over the map, etc. Like Man of Steel, it’s about heroes that are often dark and depressed in a world that hates and fears them, has fight scenes that outstay their welcome, and involves so much collateral damage that you wonder if the city will ever recover. And like Man of Steel, it includes a scene of Superman snapping someone’s neck.

• Almost all of the characters were all unlikable for the most part. The only marginally likable ones were Batman, Cyborg and the Flash. Bruce was the level headed one actually focused on trying to get everyone to work together and save the day. Cyborg genuinely had stuff to complain about and likewise was focused on saving the day. The Flash . . . . well, he was in this so little and the scenes he was involved in were not offensive in any way. Everyone else . . . well, they feel like the Nu-52 versions of the characters. Both Superman and Wonder Woman are way to fight happy, and both with more than a little arrogance to them. Wonder Woman came off as an entitled princess, while Superman had none of his nobility or charisma, just basically wanting to punch stuff. Hal Jordan was a cocky, arrogant bastard who WOULD NOT SHUT UP. Shazam was the annoying asshole from the Nu-52, only now with a side order of ‘I’m also a thief’ and ‘I’m cocky as Hell’, just in case he wasn’t unlikable enough. Darkseid is no longer a clever scheming villain, he’s just a generic conqueror who’s too physically strong for any one hero.

• The voice acting ranged from okay to bad. Batman was okay, but at points sounded more ‘bored’ than intimidating. I couldn’t understand what Darkseid was saying half the time, so it’s fortunate that he only had about 3 lines. Cyborg was solid. Superman’s was okay-ish, but he came off so smarmy and cocky as to be unlikable. Flash was okay, but he didn’t have much in the way of dialogue either. And nearly everything that Green Lantern, Wonder Woman or Shazam said made me die a little inside. Which is a shame because Hal Jordan is pretty much the main character of the movie right along with Batman.

• The dialogue ranged from ‘okay but underwhelming’ to ‘cringe worthy’. Wonder Woman and Hal’s were particularly bad, with Shazam’s being a close runner up. What really got annoying was the cursing. I’m no prude, but watching these icons just randomly yelling out ‘crap!’ and ‘kick his ass!’ and such in animated format was just kind of jarring. It was like watching a little kid try to be taken more seriously by having a foul mouth.

• The action had good moments, but it often just dragged on and on. There was just no room to breathe, no little moments to let the characters interact and get to know each other, none of the meaningful scenes that made Avengers stand out. It was just extended action sequences with occasional moments of talking and scenes to move the plot along. And what’s worse is that it starts to feel repetitive after a while.

• The character designs. Batman and Flash looked alright, but the rest of the League looked awful to various degrees. Wonder Woman has all of these extra bits of blue and silver added to her costume that is just distracting. Cyborg look like something out of a bad anime, the designs having a very Evangellion look them. All of the glowing green lines on Green Lantern's outfit just look stupid. Superman and Shazam are both sporting their Nu-52 looks, which is reason enough by themselves. Darkseid . . . I liked that he was big and imposing, but all of that gold just ruined his look.

• This is basically the Batman/Green Lantern show, guest staring Superman, Wonder Woman and Cyborg, with special guest appearances by the Flash and Shazam. If Hal and Bat’s interactions were actually entertaining, that might not be so bad, but given Bruce is fairly bland and Green Lantern is a grating tool, it doesn’t help much.

• This is not the second film to include a scene of Superman snapping someone’s neck. Mind control or not, this is not something Superman should be doing, and in older versions of the character, would have been what snapped him out of the trance.

• There are just moments of pure stupidity. Green Lantern picks a fight with Superman for no reason. Wonder Woman responds to a crowd protesting against her by lassoing a guy and embarrassing him. She threatens an ice cream man with her sword to get her and a little girl some ice cream, and then points her sword at him again to say ‘thanks’. Everything that comes out of Shazam’s mouth sounds like the kind of inane dialogue an adult thinks a kid would say.

• Batman’s reasons for trusting Hal was because they were the only two ‘normal’ people there. Despite Hal being a complete douche bag the entire movie, despite the Flash being much more level headed and team oriented, despite Cyborg actually contributing to their understanding of the battle, it’s the least likable version of Hal Jordan that Batman trusts.

• It might just be me as an old schooler, but there’s something kind of uncomfortable about watching Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and the hero-formerly-known-as-Captain-Marvel all decide that the best way of defeating a villain is to BLIND HIM. By shoving pointy metal into his eyes. That’s just . . . DAMN . . .

• A mid-credits teaser. Seriously. They gave this a mid-credits teaser to sequel bait us. I hope to God they don’t try to sequel this thing out, because this is the last time I want to see this version of these characters.

Simply Put . . .
. . . this movie was bad. Not Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen or Transformers: Dark of the Moon bad, but definitely a well below average action movie made worse for fans of these characters. Would not recommend.

On a purely personal note, this is probably the only animated portrayal of Captain Marvel that I’ve genuinely hated. Even with Flashpoint, Captain Thunder wasn’t so much bad as he just didn’t have much of anything to do, and even though I felt he was beaten too easily and was infuriated by Billy’s death, the character himself didn’t make me mad.

This tho? I have no problem calling this version of the character ‘Shazam’, because he is everything Captain Marvel isn’t suppose to be. This Billy Batson is a lying thief, sneaking into a sports arena, lying to get past the ticket counter, stealing Vic Stone’s football jersey, and being proud of himself for doing so. He’s dismissive of his foster siblings, who show him genuine compassion and empathy, treating them like morons. He’s cocky to the point of arrogance, yet comes of mind-numbingly simple minded when he’s powered up.

As Shazam, I still hate the Nu-52 hooded wizard look, though this was less painful to look at generally. However, I hated that they basically turned him into a lightning blaster. One thing I loved about Captain Marvel was that he was one of the last pure flying bricks around. He doesn’t need to be shooting bolts of lightning to be cool. He should be the guy in the thick of things punching bad guys, doing hand claps, creating shock waves, doing all of those fun Silver Age brick tricks. The lightning charged punches I kind of liked, as it made for an interesting visual and it’s something that they’ve toyed with in the comics. But him shooting lightning from his hands is just wrong on so many levels. It basically makes him into even more of a Superman clone, as they’re now both flying bricks with long capes, with alternate coloring on their boots, belt and wrists, who can fly, are strong, fast and tough, and have a ranged attack. They even modified his lightning emblem to make it look more like Superman’s S-Shield. No Wisdom of Solomon, none of his other abilities, he’s just a strong, fast, flying guy that shoots lightning. It’s like they literally sucked all the magic out of the character.

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Re: Justice League: War

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:38 pm

Aw ass! I give this movie three hells and a damn!

Seriously, it's like a fourteen year olde was told he was allowed to say three swears by his mom, but slipped a bitch and a shit in there just to see if she was paying attention. I am honestly glad I didn't give WB anything for that movie. At least Justice League Adventures was fun.
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby saint_matthew » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:12 am

I don't know what you are all talking about, this was a great first part to what I'm assuming is a two part movie. I like that they spent an entire movie introducing the villains of the piece, my favourite was Flying Armadillo-Man & I certainly found Super-Jerk, his clone Captain Super-Jerk & Straw-Feminist-propaganda-Womyn to be interesting.... I'm not sure about Neon Green Tron Man & "Guy-Borg: The worlds most clichéd black athlete man", but I'm willing to wait to see part two, to see how it ends.... My only dislike so far is that the Justice League wasn't in this episode, but I'm willing to overlook that because the writers did have to find a way to bring together this group of fascists as a team & convince the people that they were actually heroes.

*whispering sound from off screen*

WHAT!

*More whispering sounds from off screen*

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "THAT WAS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE!" HOW WAS THAT THE JUSTICE LEAGUE!

:lol:
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Re: Justice League: War

Postby Sidious » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:33 am

*presses play on the dvd*

*a short time later in the credits*

WHAT. THE. Frak. WAS. THAT??

Seriously can anyone tell my why they thought... THAT... was a good idea?
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