[City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

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[City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby Darrin Kelley » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:40 pm

August 31st it was announced that City Of Heroes/Villains will be ceasing operation by the end of the year. And that effective immediately they would no longer be accepting of new subscription payments.

I personally played the game pretty obsessively for a couple of years. It was the world's first superhero MMO. And it gave me personally a lot of good memories I will always look back upon with a smile.

It will be missed.

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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby saint_matthew » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:40 pm

Darrin Kelley wrote:August 31st it was announced that City Of Heroes/Villains will be ceasing operation by the end of the year. And that effective immediately they would no longer be accepting of new subscription payments.

I personally played the game pretty obsessively for a couple of years. It was the world's first superhero MMO. And it gave me personally a lot of good memories I will always look back upon with a smile.

It will be missed.


I was there before it was released, i own the archetect set (COH/COV). An while i'm sadden to see it go, i'd have to say it really wasn't a very good game. Every flaw any MMO has ever had, it had in spades. Annoying cool down timers, everything on a cool down timer, movement modes that used energy to use, previous generation graphics (which did not age well, even after the graphics update), dreadful chase camera dynamics when inside a building, repeditive mission structure, nonsensical crafting system, repeditive mission structure, silly power ups that didn't really work, repeditive mission structure (okay, i think this gag is over now) & hideous user interface.

An yet still not as bad as Champions Online.

I'll miss it, but more as an oddity, or a progenitor, then as a good game.

EDIT: Though in full disclosure, i personally believe that the day of the MMO is over. Even WOW is losing money & has made the first 20 levels free to play now.
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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby Vexous » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:00 am

Never did play that one but I'm not surprised to hear its shutting down. Subscription based mmos just don't make it very long anymore, and even free to play with microtransactions games are starting to show signs of stress.

Its kind of like comics actually. Video games/mmos used to be made by gamers for gamers. Sadly the corporate world found out there was money to be made and bought those guys out. The "Formula for Success" the suits replaced games with just isn't worth paying for like the real games used to be, hence the declining trend.

Come to think of it, you even see that in the tabletop world. Look at 4e. Lets just hope Green Ronin doesn't get bought out by EA or somesuch.

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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:30 am

Vexous wrote:Its kind of like comics actually. Video games/mmos used to be made by gamers for gamers. Sadly the corporate world found out there was money to be made and bought those guys out.


Vexous i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. MMO's are on the way out, its got nothing to do with business getting involved in a big way. The time of the MMO had an expiry date on it from day one, it was going to be start small, get bigger, get to big, not live up to the hype, have the market be over saturated & then take up to much real world time with no real reward, at which point people will opt out.

The pay off in playing a game is that eventually it ends. An MMO never ends, it just keeps on going & the only way to keep it going is to make it increasingly hard to achieve the given result. This results in endless padding & no satisfactory end.

While the paradigm was new, it was all steam ahead: But people know that its not going to end now, so any actual interest in playing the game, rather then just having the game turn into a part time unpaid job, evaporated.

Heck there aren't even all that much in the way of "on the way" stories, between level 1 & level 30. An when you end up having to grind the same missions & do the same filler missions for piddly rewards, it all starts to fall into the "why bother" category.

Personally i think the time of the MMO is over & now we are just seeing the last few dying breaths as the market for them dries up. An nothing has changed, it was exactly the same with Everquest as it is with the newest MMO's.
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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby Vexous » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:29 am

MMOs can be sustained, IF they have endgame content worth playing. They also need to be something that isn't exactly a cakewalk to get through that content. Yes, its a carrot on a stick either way, but today's corporate Formula makes it far too easy to get that carrot.

Look at vanilla WoW, and Burning Crusade. Endgame content that was doable, but took time. It drew people in and kept them playing. "You telling me you're not good enough? Joe can do it, why can't you? You haven't even finished the game and you're gonna quit? LOL!" It was a carrot, everyone knew it was a carrot, and everyone knew it was on the end of stick just out of reach. Didn't matter, they kept coming back, its human nature. Even though less than 10% of the players ever actually finished Naxx in vanilla WoW, just giving up wasn't an option, they had to try.

Then came the Northrend xpac, everything got a lot easier. People started finishing the game, and when they finished? Yeah, they quit. No surprise. By getting too greedy and trying to draw more people in they killed the longterm playerbase. This is why mmos are dying. They shortened the stick up too much and are too stupid to put it back. And since Wow is so popular the suits have decided not to try anything with their money that isn't "guaranteed" and just do what WoW does, hence they're all going right into the garbage along with Warcraft.

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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby danelsan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:01 am

Personally, my only interest in superhero MMOs have ever been the character creators. Should something similar to an offline version of DCUO's character generator ever becomes available, with no game whatsoever attached to it, I'll be very likely to buy it.
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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby Mr Mole » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:55 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Vexous wrote:Its kind of like comics actually. Video games/mmos used to be made by gamers for gamers. Sadly the corporate world found out there was money to be made and bought those guys out.

Vexous i'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. MMO's are on the way out, its got nothing to do with business getting involved in a big way. The time of the MMO had an expiry date on it from day one, it was going to be start small, get bigger, get to big, not live up to the hype, have the market be over saturated & then take up to much real world time with no real reward, at which point people will opt out.

...

Personally i think the time of the MMO is over & now we are just seeing the last few dying breaths as the market for them dries up. An nothing has changed, it was exactly the same with Everquest as it is with the newest MMO's.

Matthew, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. While I think the face of the MMO world is shifting considerably, with some of the big players losing customers left and right, I don't think MMOs themselves are going to go away... Lots of change coming, certainly, but not going away...

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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby Sidious » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:05 pm

danelsan wrote:Personally, my only interest in superhero MMOs have ever been the character creators. Should something similar to an offline version of DCUO's character generator ever becomes available, with no game whatsoever attached to it, I'll be very likely to buy it.


I'm hoping that's a typo there. DCUO's character Creator was horrible compared to CoX.
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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby danelsan » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:58 pm

What I mean is "offline superhero creation engine with much superior graphics than Hero Factory or Hero Machine".
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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:44 pm

Vexous wrote:Look at vanilla WoW, and Burning Crusade. Endgame content that was doable, but took time. It drew people in and kept them playing. "You telling me you're not good enough? Joe can do it, why can't you? You haven't even finished the game and you're gonna quit? LOL!" It was a carrot, everyone knew it was a carrot, and everyone knew it was on the end of stick just out of reach. Didn't matter, they kept coming back, its human nature. Even though less than 10% of the players ever actually finished Naxx in vanilla WoW, just giving up wasn't an option, they had to try.


Except that people have got wise to the carrot & don't care for it anymore. DCUO for instance, you get to level 30 & then are told, congrats you reached level 30, not grind out dailies for the next year, to get raid gear. Have fun.

An wow's not to much better in that regard. The market was over hyped, over saturated & i personally see it collapsing pretty soon, as developers realise they are no longer super profitable.

danelsan wrote:Personally, my only interest in superhero MMOs have ever been the character creators. Should something similar to an offline version of DCUO's character generator ever becomes available, with no game whatsoever attached to it, I'll be very likely to buy it.


Um, it is available. Correction, was available. It was put out online in 2006 by the korean franchise of the company... I have it somewhere & if i can find it i'll put it up as a torrent for you. Its completely legit, it just wasn't releases in the western world that way. If i stumble over the disc its on i;'ll try and get it to you.
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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby Vexous » Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:41 pm

Actually, DCUO is exactly what I'm talking about with it being way too easy. You can get a full set of Tier1 maybe a month after hitting max level if you're raiding. Fact is, it probably won't take that long, since you'll have at least 2 if not more pieces of Tier2 gear and most likely 2-3 pieces of raid gear thats better than Tier1 anyway.

Its ridiculously easy to gear up there. Tor is the same way. No idea what WoW is like now, haven't played in years but thats where this trend started at. Getting new gear is fun, but when you turn it into a simple formula anyone can complete, well, something seems to get lost in translation. Dead endgame = Dead mmo.

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Re: [City Of Heroes/City Of Villains] The end of an era.

Postby danelsan » Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:46 pm

saint_matthew wrote:
danelsan wrote:Personally, my only interest in superhero MMOs have ever been the character creators. Should something similar to an offline version of DCUO's character generator ever becomes available, with no game whatsoever attached to it, I'll be very likely to buy it.


Um, it is available. Correction, was available. It was put out online in 2006 by the korean franchise of the company... I have it somewhere & if i can find it i'll put it up as a torrent for you. Its completely legit, it just wasn't releases in the western world that way. If i stumble over the disc its on i;'ll try and get it to you.

Oh, the City of Heroes offline creator? I have that one, or at least a version of it (Some Internet forum even told me how to make it be in English).
But there are relatively few items and variations of design in it. I expect one I actually paid for would be more versatile by having more stuff and some update packages instead of just being a marketing tool for an MMO. That wasn't clear from my previous post, though, I admit.
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