Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby saint_matthew » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:24 am

Kyle wrote:Presumably they changed Anarky's look to better fit the belaboured chess metaphor.


I know what you mean... Didn't we all get enough of the chess thing in The Cape?

Kyle wrote:Also, is anyone really going to object to a show where Batman frequently beats on a Moon Knight look alike?


I might..... I like Moon-Knight... Hypothetically.... If Marvel would just let me plot them a Moon Knight series worth reading... An honestly they should.
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Kyle » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:14 am

There are things I like about Moon Knight. He has a cool costume, his origin story is interesting -- though I prefer the original origin to the retcon -- and his supporting cast is well defined. He's a better Marvel Batman than Night Hawk.

Unfortunately, he doesn't have a strong rogues gallery, and I think a lot of writers feel hindered by the multiple personality thing.

Marvel could do interesting things with the character, but I wouldn't hold my breath. After the last few attempts, I think the character probably has enough stigma attached that it will be a while before he gets a new solo series. So, until they decide to do another MARVEL KNIGHTS team book, I can't see him getting much exposure.

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby The_Watchman » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:49 am

Kyle wrote:Anarky was basically just a watered down 'Dark Knight' Joker here.


That's been the thing that's continued to bother me about the show. I've come to terms with the animation as something like Tron:Uprising that looks pretty good in motion while looking kinda bad in stills. The characters are interesting takes and the idea of Batman's partner being a potential love interest has some appeal (when it's not the kind of creepy pairing between Barbara and Bruce in BTAS). But the villains and plots haven't been anything groundbreaking. Villains we haven't seen much of turned into pretty decent characters (Magpie in particular was a far improvement over her previous versions) though a lot of the redesigns remind me of The Batman with the emphasis on making villains more physical threats to Batman.

Overall, the show's not as bad as I feared but it still seems like this decade's version of The Batman with the focus on anime-esque action. I think a Batman Beyond series done by this team would be excellent but so far it hasn't done much to be a great Batman show. Nothing to set it apart besides the cg animation and the D List villains.
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Kyle » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:12 am

The_Watchman wrote:Nothing to set it apart besides the cg animation and the D List villains.

It has Jason Statham as Alfred!

You do make in an interesting point though; I hadn't been thinking of the villains as D List because they've appeared in things that I've enjoyed. Professor Pyg is a Grant Morrison creation, Magpie and Humpty Dumpty were both in ARKHAM ASYLUM: THE LIVING HELL, and Silver Monkey appeared in GREEN ARROW when Connor Hawke was the lead.

But they're absolutely D List. Batman might as well be fighting Dardevil's rogue's gallery.

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Arkrite » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:08 am

As much as I don't much care for this show... I will say that I've heard stories indicating that the villains used in the Adam West Batman TV show weren't very popular at the time. Only after the show started did their popularity increase.

That being said I can't help but wonder if they were just told, for whatever reason, that they weren't allowed to use the normal Batman villains.
They get weird that way sometimes.

Like how they couldn't use Robin during the Justice League/Justice League Unlimited series...

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:44 am

I am still on the fence about this series, but Katana freaks me out.
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:50 am

Kyle wrote:There are things I like about Moon Knight. He has a cool costume, his origin story is interesting -- though I prefer the original origin to the retcon -- and his supporting cast is well defined. He's a better Marvel Batman than Night Hawk.


I think that his supporting cast has always been one of his biggest downfalls: They are well defined but dull. Take Marlene for instance.... She's literally the same character now that she was when she was introduced in November 1980... 33 years with out as much as a change in hair style is a little to silly.

Kyle wrote:Unfortunately, he doesn't have a strong rogues gallery, and I think a lot of writers feel hindered by the multiple personality thing.


Funny you should mention that because those are two of the big things i would do something about if i had creative control. Firstly Moon Knight gets a new rogues gallery... Because frankly he completely lacks for any villain worth still using, including Bushman. An that multiple personalities, may actually be insane thing would go.

Kyle wrote:Marvel could do interesting things with the character, but I wouldn't hold my breath. After the last few attempts, I think the character probably has enough stigma attached that it will be a while before he gets a new solo series. So, until they decide to do another MARVEL KNIGHTS team book, I can't see him getting much exposure.


I know what you mean. My idea for it was essentially a creative relaunch, rather then a reboot. Mark is flying back to New York after the events at the end of the Bendis run in his private plane when he starts to bleed from the ears & goes into a seizure. The pilot lands the plane, gets Mark medical assistance & mark is rushed to surgery... Its discovered he has a piece of cermamic lodged in his brain.... It gets taken out using bleeding edge experimental super hero world technology... All this revealed in flashbacks as the series progressess. Another flashback would be to Mark clear headed renouncing Konshu... An with that i have got rid of that stupid "is he insane, or is konshu real" argument, while not answering the question.

but it turns out all is not well in fictional city & as Mark recovers he see's that fictional city needs a hero much more then NY does & he takes back the mantle of a hero, minus Konshu, the insanity, or the extreme crippling violence. He also resets up Mark Spector as a real person, with actual business interests, now that he is clear headed for the first time in almost a decade.

The overarching story would about the machinations of a Lex Luthor type business man, who rules fictional city by the Golden Rule: He who has the money makes the rules. He wants not just power, but super power, obsessed with having super powers... To the point where he is even experimenting with MGH, trying to stabilise its properties (think Norman Osborn in the start of Ultimate Spiderman, but with Lex Luthors breadth of interest).

An yeah, i would totally ditch the past supporting cast & the past villains: Time for a clean sweep on those. Many of the villains would be new villains, made specifically for the title, many of whom could be hired mercenaries, specialists equiped by said Lex Osborne pastiche & even unwilling MGH test subjects (think the Big Bang out of Milestone comics).

But most of all, the book would have to stand on its own: No cross overs to try to improve sales out of a poorly written series. It would be Hawkman volume 4, or Green Arrow volume 3.... A stand alone title, telling a story about a character that is not considered important to the rest of the universe, but in there own corner they are king... Perfectly suited to the villains there situation creates.

As for power set direction, i would go with the Vengeance of the Moon Knight direction: Tech over brutality. But i would certainly want a redesign of pretty much all of it.... An no more Mark pulling out silly archaic weapons with the word Moon tacked on... Because the Moon-Bow was silly.

In many ways my Moon-Knight is similiar to the Batman out of "The Batman" cartoon... Not the original Animated DCU version, but the one that came out a bit later: The version with the "Batwave Technology."
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Darrin Kelley » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:52 am

I saw part of an episode of this. And it was incredibly painful.

Professor Pig and Mr. Toad? They couldn't do better villains than that?

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Kyle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:17 am

Kyle wrote:Though I am looking forward to Silver Monkey showing up.

Well, that was a disappointment.

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby saint_matthew » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:03 am

Kyle wrote:
Kyle wrote:Though I am looking forward to Silver Monkey showing up.

Well, that was a disappointment.


Given the shows low end track record, are you at all suprised.
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Kyle » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:30 am

I don't know if I'm so much surprised as I am just disappointed.

Other thoughts on the episode:

- Batman stops Katana from killing a ninja dude, claiming, "Once you cross that line, you can't go back." Why does he assume Katana hasn't killed in a fight before? Does he think Alfred's never killed before? Is he just naive?

- Why is Katana's soultaker a jian and not a katana? Is it to purposefully confuse me?

- Was the scientist dude's creepy infatuation with Katana supposed to be even more annoying than Mockingbird's repetition of "Shiny shiny," or was it supposed to be funny? I kinda feel that the writer who submitted that joke is probably wearing a bad person mask, and includes the phrase, "your Earth hu-mour," in several of his pitches.

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby The_Watchman » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:29 am

With this week's episode being pulled suddenly and without a rerun in its place, it looks Beware the Batman is on the way out. With ratings even worse than the far more critically acclaimed Brave and the Bold, it's not too surprising.
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby Mortium » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:53 pm

Cartoon Network's execs are to blame. 1) They pissed everyone off with Young Justice last year, 2) which hurt Beware the Batman before episode 1 aired. and 3) for some reason they like green lighting shit like the annoying orange and uncle grandpa.

Seriously, WB needs to step in as parent company, and say Cartoon Network will air this this and this as we build our brand for our Movies/Live-Action TV. Instead they have idiots at the helm at CN.

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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby The_Watchman » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:36 pm

Mortium wrote:Seriously, WB needs to step in as parent company, and say Cartoon Network will air this this and this as we build our brand for our Movies/Live-Action TV. Instead they have idiots at the helm at CN.


Considering their current track record with films, I'm not sure WB is doing much better at leveraging their properties. Green Lantern was a cross the board failure. Man of Steel made money but seems to be in a place similar to Amazing Spider-Man of making money but not having people really care. Dark Knight Rises did well but so far it seems like WB has no idea what to do with any of DC besides Batman. I'm not sure a more hands on approach from WB would make Cartoon Network any more likely to stop shutting down shows like Justice League, Teen Titans, Brave and the Bold, or Young Justice. The fact is, the superhero TV business is much like the superhero comic business and desperately chasing numbers through reboots and gimmicks is the strategy they're going with. Shows that get more than a few seasons are incredibly rare, particularly when it is expensive to create them as is always the case with any quality animated show. Serialization is going to be an issue for bringing in new audience members and superhero shows are already occupying a niche. The only real hope for an animated series to get a long order is if it has overwhelming crossover appeal and can pull huge amounts of money from merchandise and the like. The list of shows that can do that is slim and Beware the Batman was already competing for merchandise along the plethora of other Batman merch lining store shelves (I've seen merchandise for Justice League, Brave and the Bold, Dark Knight, and Young Justice still up for sale in stores).

Plus, Beware the Batman didn't even have the passionate fandom (as far as I've seen) that other series skirting the chopping block have had.
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Re: Beware the Batman on CN in 2013

Postby The_Watchman » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:55 pm

Mortium wrote:for some reason they like green lighting shit like the annoying orange and uncle grandpa.


Because those series make big ratings for whatever reason. Presumably the peripheral stoner/college kid demographic that makes Spongebob so popular (though Spongebob is far superior IMHO). Uncle Grandpa gets more viewers for an average episode (2.64 million) than Young Justice did during its finale (2.05 million). I hate that shows I like are getting replaced by shows I find terrible but from a business perspective, Cartoon Network is making reasonable choices. At least Uncle Grandpa is an actual cartoon, compared to all the live action stuff CN has aired in recent years.

It's the animation age ghetto that's keeping a lot of our beloved superhero shows from really taking off. The whole world will watch the Avengers in live action but getting them to watch a cartoon is another story. Cartoon Network has tried over and over again to succeed with programming aimed at a more mature (or discerning) audience but outside of Adult Swim (nothing but comedies), the numbers just aren't there. Even the successful crossover shows like Adventure Time have strong comedic elements. Outside of Avatar (if you combine Last Airbender and Legend of Korra) and the DC Animated verse (if you combine Batman, Superman, and Justice League), are there ANY non-comedic animated series to last more than three seasons on American television?
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