Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

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Stormson
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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Stormson » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:13 pm

TheSander wrote:Carol is all right, though I still find her new costume hideous.


I think it's fine till she goes into MOHAWK HELMET mode, which is baffling why anyone would ever think that's good.

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby TheSander » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:41 pm

Anyway, I want to thank you Ares, for showing me that link. It was extremely informative, and confirmed much of what I already thought.

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Ares » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:24 pm

Mr Mole wrote:I'm here to claim my bonus points. :mrgreen:

I also read the posts that followed and (for what it's worth) I agree with every word of what you posted.

I particularly liked this snippet:


Aw, thanks MM. Nice to know I'm not alone in my thoughts. Really, the things DC has done to Captain Marvel is like the literary equivalent of parental abuse. The higher ups at DC would still be in jail.

TheSander wrote:Anyway, I want to thank you Ares, for showing me that link. It was extremely informative, and confirmed much of what I already thought.


Glad you liked it Sander. Nice to know all that rambling did some good. ^_^

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Ares » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:33 pm

As for Carol's outfit, it doesn't really look bad until she puts on the mohawk helmet, like Stormson said. At the same time, I don't think it looks really good or iconic compared to the other outfits she's had. The coloring and placement reminds me too much of Miracle Man's outfit. Her black outfit was the one where she really made a name for herself, and was the nice mix of conservative and sexy. At the same time, if she was going to adopt Captain Mar-Vell's name to honor him, you'd think she'd adopt his colors like her Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes outfit:

Image

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Talison » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:51 am

While informally agree with the "DC just doesn't use him right" argument "Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam" does seem to buck that idea.

Of course if you want the apex of DC using him wrong there is Superman: Distant Fires.

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby The_Watchman » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:23 pm

Ares wrote:At the same time, if she was going to adopt Captain Mar-Vell's name to honor him, you'd think she'd adopt his colors like her Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes outfit:
[Picture]

I do like that costume but all I can think is "Dang it! Why did I run out of material just before I finished connecting my pants to the rest of the outfit!"
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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby ghostman76 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:30 pm

Leave it to Avengers: EMH to combine the two most classic versions of Carol's suits into an amalgam that fans of either design can recognize and think, "Hey...that's pretty cool!"

Why exactly does that show not exist anymore? Oh yeah...Jeph Loeb.

/hops off soap box and skuttles into a corner to weep.
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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Talison » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:14 am

No argue net there. The new Avengers show isn't bad, per say, but it's not Earth's Mightiest Heroes by any stretch.

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby saint_matthew » Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:38 am

Talison wrote:The new Avengers show isn't bad, per say, but it's not Earth's Mightiest Heroes by any stretch.


Its worse than bad.... its the one thing that is worse than just being bad.... Its terminally mediocre. A terrible state of affair where the best thing that could be said for it is that yes it does exist.
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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby The_Watchman » Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:34 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Talison wrote:The new Avengers show isn't bad, per say, but it's not Earth's Mightiest Heroes by any stretch.


Its worse than bad.... its the one thing that is worse than just being bad.... Its terminally mediocre. A terrible state of affair where the best thing that could be said for it is that yes it does exist.


Well, it does air with the Adventures of Teen Deadpool so terminally mediocre isn't the worst it could be...
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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Mr Mole » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:15 am

saint_matthew wrote:Its worse than bad.... its the one thing that is worse than just being bad.... Its terminally mediocre. A terrible state of affair where the best thing that could be said for it is that yes it does exist.

+1. A:EMH was pretty good, but not brilliant (certainly not as good as Young Justice, but I don't wanna send myself into a depression mourning that loss just now), and it was cancelled way too early. Avengers Assemble doesn't even come close. AA's existence isn't tragic... That other, far superior shows have been cancelled is...

...Even some shows that did a decent job portraying Captain Marvel, the subject of the OP... :roll:

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Ares » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:12 pm

ghostman76 wrote:Leave it to Avengers: EMH to combine the two most classic versions of Carol's suits into an amalgam that fans of either design can recognize and think, "Hey...that's pretty cool!"

Why exactly does that show not exist anymore? Oh yeah...Jeph Loeb.

/hops off soap box and skuttles into a corner to weep.


Oh don't get me started. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes was one of my favorite animated series of all time. It did a wonderful job of re-imagining classic Marvel characters and storylines, condensing and updating them in a new and fun way that was basically a 'best of' approach, etc. And then . . . Jeph Loeb came into the picture. I swear I pull a Shatner and yell 'LOOOOOEB!' at the ceiling when I think about how he messed with a good formula, and then canceled it in favor of a show that was more like the movies, except much crappier.

Still, we got an almost perfect first season and a second season that was half good, half mediocre and half crap. I just wish we'd gotten a showdown with Surtur as the last episode instead of the Galactus one. Would have been so much cooler.

Mr Mole wrote:+1. A:EMH was pretty good, but not brilliant (certainly not as good as Young Justice, but I don't wanna send myself into a depression mourning that loss just now), and it was cancelled way too early. Avengers Assemble doesn't even come close. AA's existence isn't tragic... That other, far superior shows have been cancelled is...


I liked both Young Justice and Avengers:EMH, but prefered A:EMH. Young Justice was very well done and had great animation, but it had a lot of problems, and similar to A:EMH, it was screwed by the network. They certainly did a good job of fleshing out the characters and the world, they made the villains a credible threat, the animation was gorgeous, the fight scenes often had great choreography, it was a pretty cool 'semi-realistic' take on the heroes while still keeping a lot of the classic stuff, and they clearly wanted to tell a long, ongoing epic.

The problems were that the storylines in YJ just seemed to drag on forever, especially when the networks caused delay after delay with releasing new episodes. You basically had to wait until the end of each season for any kind of payoff and almost everything was related to the Light's ongoing story. It would have been nice occasionally to have some self contained, non-Light stuff to just give the heroes room to breath and be heroes. The villains were also too effective at times, to the point that the series was basically highjacked by the Light, and was an ongoing story of how they kept snatching victory from the heroes. Then the poor Justice League wound up feeling like jobbers to both the bad guys AND the kids, making you wonder why the kids weren't the ones calling the shots.

I kind of wish the show had just been called 'Justice' and had focused equally on the League and the kids, as it seemed like they wanted to do a DC Universe show instead of just a Young Justice show, based on how expansive the setting became. It would have let everyone look cool and have time to shine, especially if they dialed down the 'Villains Win' factor. It was cool when Xantos always took something away from each encounter with the heroes, but here the Light made the good guys look like chumps 95% of the time.

...Even some shows that did a decent job portraying Captain Marvel, the subject of the OP... :roll:


Captain Marvel was hit or miss on the show. When he was good, he was FANTASTIC. "Billy Batson has the courage of Billy Batson" is one of my favorite lines in the series, and summed up Billy perfectly. He is the hero, he was the one chosen to wield those powers, he is awesome, with or without the cape. He was just so happy and enthusiastic, yet always willing to help out the kids or be there for them. Little things like him hugging M'ggan after that disastrous mind game episode, or giving advice to Aqualad, or him calling out Dr. Fate on his dickish behavior, or just him hugging Batman and Zatara because he was happy to see them,

But then you'd get things like the kids making him look foolish to him occasionally not looking competent or jobbing to make the kids look better, or just being something of a doormat for other heroes in general. I know it was the kids show, but I kind of wish Cap would have gotten '6th Ranger' status to let him shine a little more, maybe introduce more kids to the awesome that was him, though apparently he was pretty popular despite his relative lack of screen time.

Sorry, hope that didn't come off as 'the show you liked sucked' post. A:EMH wasn't a perfect show either by any stretch, but I had a lot more fun with it. Different strokes for different folks and all that. :mrgreen:

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby TheSander » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:27 pm

I have enjoyed Young Justice a lot as well, and CM has a lot of great moments in it, but there was one moment where I called "Bullshit!"

SPOILER:
During the finale, a mind controlled Cap is about to attack the Team, when Zatanna just says "Blurt out Shazam!" (backwards, of course), and you know what: it works!

No! Just no! There's no way that would work!

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Shock » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:54 pm

TheSander wrote:I have enjoyed Young Justice a lot as well, and CM has a lot of great moments in it, but there was one moment where I called "Bullshit!"

SPOILER:
During the finale, a mind controlled Cap is about to attack the Team, when Zatanna just says "Blurt out Shazam!" (backwards, of course), and you know what: it works!

No! Just no! There's no way that would work!

Out of curiousity, why wouldn't that work?

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Re: Why isn't Captain Marvel more popular?

Postby Mr Mole » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:16 pm

Shock wrote:Out of curiousity, why wouldn't that work?

The Billy Batson/Captain Marvel transformation takes place when Billy/CM says the name "SHAZAM," summoning the transforming lightning bolt. Generally, Billy/CM has to say the word and actually be struck by the lightning bolt to transform... I only vaguely recall it, but I believe there's precedent for him to be transformed by a non-SHAZAM powered jolt of electricity. I can't cite a source offhand and I may be mistaken, but if I'm not, then imagine a lightning bolt generated by Zatanna's magic could, possibly do the trick...

YMMV.

EDIT: I still haven't come across a decent citation, but DCA:H&V1, pg 104 states the following:

In the past, attacks with both “magical” and “lightning” descriptors have also been able to trigger the transformation the same as the bolts summoned by the Marvel Family’s magic words. So, for example, a villain with magical lightning powers (or similar traits like weather control) might be able to cause the transformation. Such a complication can certainly make things more difficult for Captain Marvel when he is transformed against his will back into Billy Batson!

I don't recall who wrote that particular entry (Prof McG, maybe?), but I'm reasonably sure they did their research. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Mr Mole on Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.


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