Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby Vexous » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:44 pm

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/05/ ... de6b000014

Seeing stuff like this makes me realize its time for me to put the idea of reading comics on the shelf. G'luck guys, I'm out.

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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:55 pm

Seeing stuff like what?
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby Kyle » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:58 pm

I'm looking forward to the new MS. MARVEL series. It sounds like it could be an interesting take on the Spider-Man formula, and G. Willow Wilson's CAIRO was pretty decent.

As for CAPTAIN MARVEL, I wrote a review of the final issue -- this volume's anyway -- for Word of the Nerd. Spoiler Alert: it is not very good.

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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:24 am

Vexous wrote:http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/05/a-new-ms-marvel-takes-flight?abthid=52795605c92200de6b000014

Seeing stuff like this makes me realize its time for me to put the idea of reading comics on the shelf. G'luck guys, I'm out.


I know what you mean. I'm all for them creating a new character, even reusing the Ms Marvel title... But the dog and pony show around the ethnicity, gender & religion of the character is just tiring & ultimately self defeating.

Marvel might as well announce "we are making this character to be cancelled prematurely" everytime we go through this. I'm not sure if anyones aware of this but superhero comic readership is overwhelmingly male, hetrosexual & white, with obvious variation... So it should come as no suprise that selling us a characters gender, ethnicity & religion is not going to work... We want to be sold an IP on the actual salient points of the IP, not on the "diversity bingo" the company releases as a press release to the very left wing leaning mainstream press: Because the same people who praise the loudest now, will be the same people who will never pick up the product & will admonish the loudest 12 months later when its cancelled due to low sales.

I mean its like going back to 1930 & trying to sell Sci-Fi fans on Superman by describing it as "a serious commentary on the lower class working migrant family, trying to reach for the American Dream, amid the post millenial strife & world economics of a shifting world marketplace."

Lets be honest, thats not a book i want to read as described... If you were to add in the fact that he's white, hetrosexual & male, i'm still no more likely to read it, than i am to read Ms Marvel on the basis of her being female & islamic.

MArvel, you make & publish comic books about sduperheroes... I'm a person who wants to pay someone to produce source material about superheroes that i can read... Sell me on what the product actually is & stop this Diversity Bingo nonsense. If you write a character that is islamic & female thats great, but thats not what the book is actually about (an if it is its going to be cancelled even sooner): Sell me on the ACTUAL salient properties of the book. Tell me why "I" as a hetrosexual, white, male, able bodied indivdual, with an interest in super heroes should be interested in picking up this specific book: Whats in it for me, what specific aspects would i as a reader be interested in.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby The_Watchman » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:51 am

saint_matthew wrote:Marvel might as well announce "we are making this character to be cancelled prematurely" everytime we go through this. I'm not sure if anyones aware of this but superhero comic readership is overwhelmingly male, hetrosexual & white, with obvious variation.


It's possible that Marvel may wish to change that or at the very least, draw in other readership. Often that fails, typically for the same reasons most comic series don't last more than a year or two, but sometimes it works. It would be absurd to claim that minority heroes have not led to a more diverse readership. It takes more than a character being different from the average superhero in terms of ethnicity/religion/gender/etc but it's also not inherently a bad thing. The current profitability in superhero movies (particularly Marvel movies) was started in no small part by an African-American superhero created at the height of Marvel's "Blacksploitation" phase and several of their recent films like the Iron Man trilogy and the new Captain America movie feature major characters originally decried for attempting to introduce diversity. One of the most successful animated series from DC featured an African-American superhero and a hispanic superhero played a major role in both Young Justice and Brave and the Bold.

Sana Amanat wrote:“The inspiration for the new Ms. Marvel series stemmed out of a desire to explore the Muslim-American diaspora from an authentic perspective and yet, this story isn’t about what it means to be a Muslim, Pakistani or American. Those are just cultural touchstones that reflect the ever changing world we live in today. This is ultimately a tale about what it means to be young, lost amidst the expectations bestowed upon you, and what happens when you get to choose.”


Is that not exactly what you were asking the writer to do, Saint? She discusses the new Ms. Marvel's ethnicity, gender, and religion as those points are likely salient to those who are not WASP or interested in reading other perspectives, then discusses the broader appeal of the character (albeit in the usual Spider-Man X.0 style that seems to define nearly every new teen superhero that's not starting out as part of a team).

Now all that aside, I do have to say that I was much more excited about this series before I saw what her powers are. I hate the "make one limb giant" school of shapeshifting. It may be my least favorite superpower visual. I much prefer the elasticity style of people like Mr. Fantastic or Plastic Man.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:21 am

The_Watchman wrote:It's possible that Marvel may wish to change that or at the very least, draw in other readership.


Sure they may want to change that, but this is not the way to do it... This is more like me deciding that i want you to like me, so i pull your pig tails hard & run off laughing to my friends.

There was a time in comic books, not all that long ago, when comic book writers just wrote these characters & let the work speak for itself... Where they didn't feel the need to spend 4 months tar & feathering there own purchasing demographic, in an attempt to drum up faux controversy that doesn't just drive off the already existant readership, but also the very demographic they pretend to be aiming for.

An thats what this kind of press release is: For the better part of a decade we've had this "get into the mainstream media, by claiming you are fighting racism/sexism/ablism" concept in comic publishing (more from MArvel than DC, but DC has got just as bad recently). It a specifically calculated corporate manuever to generate good will for a non existant product at the expense of your readership, the very readership you'll bad mouth, by insinuating that the controversy is being generated by the racist/sexist/bigoted opinions of your readers.

If this is how Marvel thinks its going to reach a larger audience, i'm sorry, but i couldn't think of a less productive, way to do that... This is the exact opposite of that intention, this is like fighitng for peace, screwing for virginity & drinking for sobriety.

The_Watchman wrote:Often that fails, typically for the same reasons most comic series don't last more than a year or two, but sometimes it works.


Can you name me one time in recent history from DC or Marvel where they have released a successful product line, based on selling people the concept of gender, ethnicity, sexual or religious preference & 4 months earlier making a faux controvercy press release? Because i'm thinking hard & i can't think of one time where we've had a sustained successful product launched in this fashion. Closest i can think of was DC's preboot version of Blue Beetle... An for the life of me i can't recall if that got a controversy press release. (I own almost all of the Reach era Blue Beetle stuff baring the second NU52 trade, which even having Blue Beetle in it could not make its complete lack of a story palatable... The first NU52 Blue Beetle volume wasn't terrible though... Thats should be arriving at my door next week)

The_Watchman wrote:It would be absurd to claim that minority heroes have not led to a more diverse readership.


Its not that they are diversity characters, its that thats all they are being sold to us presumptiously as nothing more than that, which is a self defeating business practice. It doesn't matter that they are ethinc, or religious, or any other aspect some person may call diverse, the issue is solely in how they try to sell the book as something the book is not, in a way that essentially says "this is not for you, you won't like this, we are selling it to other people" & then looking suprised when it doesn't sell, because Marvels essentially insulted the extant fan base, while simultaneously attempting to pull a bait & switch with the actual content.

Sell me on the book based not by appealing to some kind of liberal white guilt complex, but by selling me on the actual content of the product... Or better yet release the book first, without any fuss & let the press here about it once you've got something for people to get hands on with, even if its only a free digital issue zero to get people interested. I mean thats marketing 101: Always put the product in the peoples hands.

The_Watchman wrote:
Sana Amanat wrote:“The inspiration for the new Ms. Marvel series stemmed out of a desire to explore the Muslim-American diaspora from an authentic perspective and yet, this story isn’t about what it means to be a Muslim, Pakistani or American. Those are just cultural touchstones that reflect the ever changing world we live in today. This is ultimately a tale about what it means to be young, lost amidst the expectations bestowed upon you, and what happens when you get to choose.”


Is that not exactly what you were asking the writer to do, Saint? She discusses the new Ms. Marvel's ethnicity, gender, and religion as those points are likely salient to those who are not WASP or interested in reading other perspectives, then discusses the broader appeal of the character (albeit in the usual Spider-Man X.0 style that seems to define nearly every new teen superhero that's not starting out as part of a team).


Except that thats not what the book is about... In the same way the Lesbiainism is not what Batwoman was about, but you'd sure as heck think so if the entire press release read nothing but

The inspiration for the new Batwoman series stemmed out of a desire to explore the Lesbianism from an authentic lesbian perspective and yet, this story isn’t about what it means to be a Lesbian. Those are just cultural touchstones that reflect the ever changing world we lesbians live in today. This is ultimately a tale about what it means to be a young, lost lesbian amidst the expectations bestowed upon you, and what happens when you get to choose.”


See how i changed nothing but the reference to the ism & its now exactly as much a description of Batwomans title, as it was a description of Ms Marvel... I can replace the word lesbian, with Gay & tell you its a description of the Northstar marriage special... change the word to African American & its now just an accurate description of Static... Change it to Mutant & its now a description of Claremont era X-Men.

This is the miracle of media double-speak: The ability to speak for 40 minutes, appear to have said something, while actually not having made a single definitive statement. This is what i'm talking about: By the end of reading these kind of things, you actually end up definitively knowing less than you did at the start. Sell me on the actual product, tell me a little about it, the influences of other material, the intended style of the writing, the intended style of story telling, tell me a little about the actual character of the character, tell me alittle about the basic role of the character, the characters association to the universe. Tell me why "I" personally should give two flying farts for this title. What am "I" personaly as a person who wants to buy a comic book about superheroes going to get out of this title about superheroes, that could not be better served by literally any other title about superheroes.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby The_Watchman » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:04 am

saint_matthew wrote:See how i changed nothing but the reference to the ism & its now exactly as much a description of Batwomans title, as it was a description of Ms Marvel... I can replace the word lesbian, with Gay & tell you its a description of the Northstar marriage special... change the word to African American & its now just an accurate description of Static... Change it to Mutant & its now a description of Claremont era X-Men.


To be fair, "a young African-American dealing with the cultural touchstones of being an African-American while ultimately being a tale about what it means to be young, lost amidst the expectations bestowed on you, and what happens when you get to choose" IS a pretty solid description of Static.

As for a character being successful following a controversial press release, I think Batwoman is a very strong case. Ultimate Spider-Man somewhat less so on a broad scale though it is still the top Ultimate title. Batwoman's orientation is a major part of her book and the book is definitely stronger for it. "Ex-soldier that quit rather than betray who she is and found she could follow her military ideals in a new kind of uniform and a new kind of war" is an inherently more interesting story to me than "Ex-soldier that found she could follow her military ideals in a new kind of uniform and a new kind of war" or even "Ex-soldier that found HE could follow HIS military ideals in a new kind of uniform and a new kind of war." I like to see stories I haven't seen a hundred times before, even if it may just be a new coat of paint. Luke Cage fighting Dr. Doom (or him outing and beating Osborn as the Green Goblin more recently) is not the same as the Thing fighting Dr. Doom because there are different background elements.

As for the "what do I get that I couldn't get out of another title", I'm not sure how to answer that any more clearly. A story about a Muslim girl growing up in America written by someone who grew up as a Muslim girl in America. That's not a story I've seen elsewhere. Even if it was just "Persepolis but with superpowers and set in America", it's something different.

As for calling attention early, well, that's how you do things in the current distribution market. It would be absurd to wait until after retailers have sent in their Diamond orders then make a press release.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:05 am

The_Watchman wrote:To be fair, "a young African-American dealing with the cultural touchstones of being an African-American while ultimately being a tale about what it means to be young, lost amidst the expectations bestowed on you, and what happens when you get to choose" IS a pretty solid description of Static.


They all are. Thats what PR language is: its speaking without saying anything... Its what comes from speaking in universalisms, that are so universal and nebulous that they can literally apply to every work of fiction ever written. Heck, swap out the ism & you can apply it to pride & prejudice too.

The_Watchman wrote:As for a character being successful following a controversial press release, I think Batwoman is a very strong case.


Actually Batwomans wasn't a controversial press release. If you go back & read the original press release it wasn't anything more than a passing reference, with a lot of stuff by Greg Rucka himself saying that it was only an aspect of her character. The rest of the original press release actually said something of merit... Its just that the lesbian part was too titilating for comic book "copy pasta" journalists to pass up fixating on.

The_Watchman wrote:Ultimate Spider-Man somewhat less so on a broad scale though it is still the top Ultimate title.


LOL, being the top of the ultimates title, is kind of like being the least smell pile of dog poop... doesn't matter how much worse everything else stinks, said dog poop is never going to smell good, its only less bad.

The_Watchman wrote:As for the "what do I get that I couldn't get out of another title", I'm not sure how to answer that any more clearly. A story about a Muslim girl growing up in America written by someone who grew up as a Muslim girl in America.


/facepalm. By that logic you should buy my new book Watchman, its about a hetrosexual white guy, written by a hetrosexual white guy, you'll love it because you too are a hetrosexual white guy... What exactly have i told you now that suggests to you that you should read this book? Are you any the more interested in the story i'm intending on telling... The story i've not told you anything about but am selling on the idea that the character is hetrosexual & white?

Now lets say you aren't hetrosexual & white, are you more or less interested in buying this book i've told you nothing about on the basis of the protagonist being hetrosexual and white?

In a universe of intellectual properties about people from places, who believe in stuff, why should i care about this specific property, about this specific person who believes in stuff & is from a place, over any other property about a person who is from a place & believes in stuff?

Am i to purchase this solely on the grounds of novelty?

The_Watchman wrote:Even if it was just "Persepolis but with superpowers and set in America", it's something different.


Sure & so were all the failed novelty character books before it & so will be all the failed novelty characters after it, an chances are good so to will this one will fail as a novelty book too. However if the goal is to have a diverse range of character then novelty is literally the last possible way to attempt to achieve that result. A better way to do it, would be to just release the product & advertise it intelligently during the order time period & let the work speak for itself. Instead of the current trend of spectacle & obfiscation coupled with bad mouthing your extant readership.

Because different is not the same thing as good & in a world in which there are countless properties, almost all of which are not playing hide the metaphorical salami, with there books plot, people want the power to make an informed buying choice.

The_Watchman wrote:As for calling attention early, well, that's how you do things in the current distribution market.
[/quote]

No its not. A press release means next to nothing to the FLCS: They order from the diamond ordering books based on what the readership says it wants (in the form of pre-ordering/pull list ordering), combined with what the proprieter thinks will sell. There was literally nothing in that press release which would encourage a proprieter to order this book that isn't already avaialble to them in the ordering list. In fact i'd say there are quite a few proprieters deciding to order less based on that press release (given the history of such books doing poorly in sales, based on the failure of Captain Marvel in sales).

I'm sorry but its bad business all round. If they were actually interested in selling such a book, then its about time they actually employed people with some marketing savvy. Because insulting your customer base, while burying the leed on a new property in the hopes that diversity bingo will bring in sufficent new readership while not alienating the extant readership is just a self defeating way to do business.

There are much better business models to work under, ones that aren't predicated on constantly pissing people off... Both Marvel & DC once knew these mystical esoteric secrets, from the mists of the distant past of less than a decade ago. But ever since both companies were purchased by larger companies, its gone to shit.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby The_Watchman » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:49 am

OK. Clearly we will not see eye to eye on the diversity aspect and this is getting into straw man territory.

The "outsider trying to find their place" is a legitimate story trope and seems to be exactly what the press release is talking about. If your story is about being heterosexual and white and set in a place where that's not treated as a default, sure I'd love to take a look. Lost in Translation is about a heterosexual white guy having some issues with those qualities in the environment the story occurs in and I find it quite interesting.

You seem to be declaring that any character who is any way defined by an atypical quality is a novelty. I don't think you're trying to be dismissive but it's hard not to view it that way. Different is neither good nor bad, but it is, inherently, novel.

I'm just not seeing where this is trying to piss people off any more than casting Idris Elba as Heimdall was trying to piss people off (or to take the opposite side, limiting the olive skinned Katniss Everdeen or most of the Last Airbender casting to Caucasians). It may in fact be offensive to people as everyone has different things that offend them but that doesn't mean it was done deliberately. In this case, it seems to be a couple of creators wanting to write a character like themselves that isn't well-represented (or is done so somewhat problematically in the case of Dust or Simon Baz). The press release told me broadly what the story would be about and the characters powers of shapeshifting seem a good match for the story touchstones. If you think being a Muslim, darker skinned, an immigrant, or even just a girl in modern America does not open up a world of story potential, you have been incredibly lucky to avoid seeing a lot of American news.

It may end up being a bad comic. Ms. Marvel may end up being dropped into limbo as soon as the creative team burns out over mega events and editorial interference, the book gets cancelled for low sales, or whatever. But I'm willing to be intrigued by a new idea. Batwoman was not a very good character in 52 then became amazing in Rucka and Williams' series. Static was a good book under McDuffie and a terrible one in nu52. There's no telling how these things go.

I do not get insulted when they try and make a character different from what my demographic supposedly wants. Lots of them aren't great but that always seems to count more against characters representing diversity. Seriously, how many times has Aquaman failed to be a successful series and then been relaunched? Green Arrow? How many X-properties have failed? If something doesn't interest me, I don't read it. This new series is offering something different and that interests me. It's not changing an existing character in ways I don't like or even removing one to make way for another. The new Power Man didn't make Luke Cage go away. It's just adding to the stable. If it fails, it's one more cameo in a megacrossover or one more Z-lister to kill off to show how bad some new villain is. If she just kind of fades, maybe some new creative team down the line. I think the Blade movies were fairly entertaining but I couldn't really care less about the character until he showed up in Captain Britain and MI:13. A new character doesn't bother me. It's either a new character or else its yet another Avengers or X-Men series. That's about all the comic companies ever do.

And as a final note (for now), I do get regularly insulted as a white, 30-something, heterosexual, male lifetime comic book fan when comic companies assume Mark Millar and his ilk represent the kind of crap I want to read. They think nu52 is what I want based on my demographics. That's pretty fricking insulting.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:51 am

Though in the end, its nothing to argue over: Its simply bad business to keep on doing it like this... But thats par for the course for both Marvel & DC these days. They refuse to adapt to new ways of doing things & optimum business practices & insist on being dragged kicking and screaming.

Heck i personally have at least one business idea to change part of the comic book paradigm completley.

I'm not sure how much you know about the history of books, but the big thing that digital made possible wasn't e-books like most people think: The big thing it made possible was turning expensive vanity publishing into cheap, easy & effective print on demand.

Well i had the same idea for comic book graphic novels. If you look at many trades they are completely out of print, or just don't exist... So if i want the complete Nightwing collection i need to spend a huge amount to get out of print stuff second hand & DC gets none of that money... It goes to some dodgy guy on e-bay.

But if WB were to spend a little money, they could make a specific branch of printing that does nothing but print on demand graphic novels, sold through amazon. Suddenly, literally overnight comics would go post scarcity. An half the work is already done since quite a lot of DC's back log is already digital for the digital comics sales on comixology. Heck they could even set it up so they can print on demand things that have never been released as a trade. So lets say i want a trade of "Son of Vulcan" i can get that. The only outlay cost to DC outside of the actual printing press, would be the purchasing of the ISBN. Not even any huge storage overhead since its all print on demand, you just sell through amazon like all print on demand books do.

Heck given sufficent time, people could actually get specially made trades. Lets say i want an omnibus collection of New Krypton, but without specific filler issues, or an a specific reading order, you could have that made, bound & sent to you, for a cost... Wouldn't even cost them an ISBN, since it would be direct to the customer sale.

It would revolutionise the comic industry overnight, as it would suddenly become an ever green, post scarcity market.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby The_Watchman » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:05 am

saint_matthew wrote:Well i had the same idea for comic book graphic novels. If you look at many trades they are completely out of print, or just don't exist... So if i want the complete Nightwing collection i need to spend a huge amount to get out of print stuff second hand & DC gets none of that money... It goes to some dodgy guy on e-bay.

But if WB were to spend a little money, they could make a specific branch of printing that does nothing but print on demand graphic novels, sold through amazon. Suddenly, literally overnight comics would go post scarcity. An half the work is already done since quite a lot of DC's back log is already digital for the digital comics sales on comixology. Heck they could even set it up so they can print on demand things that have never been released as a trade. So lets say i want a trade of "Son of Vulcan" i can get that. The only outlay cost to DC outside of the actual printing press, would be the purchasing of the ISBN. Not even any huge storage overhead since its all print on demand, you just sell through amazon like all print on demand books do.

It would revolutionise the comic industry overnight, as it would suddenly become an ever green, post scarcity market.


This. Yes. Absolutely. I quite enjoy reading single comics on my tablet now that I have a decent size screen but the price point is not good. I go to trades for my main reading. Reasonably priced Print on Demand would be a huge deal. Sadly, I think it's going to be a very slow, painful journey for Marvel and DC out of the business as usual mindset that dominates them. It would almost certainly be the death knell for a lot of FLCS unless they could find some way to integrate the system (like if the Print on Demand resources were actually feasible for a comic store to have in house) but I think that's already a certainty.

Unfortunately, the specter of the speculator boom has never left the comic industry and the current system is deeply entrenched. It seems like feasible and reasonable cost POD would put a (well-deserved) knife into Diamond once and for all which they will use all their power to prevent.

Comics are in a place not unlike video games. The digital revolution offers so many possibilities but the uncertainties have left many publishers clinging to the business as usual mindset no matter how much it may cost down the line. It's clearly not working looking at all the publishers closing their doors and the falling equity of companies like EA compared to the more forward thinking companies like Valve. But it's not likely to change until the board is basically cleared at the top.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:32 am

The_Watchman wrote:This. Yes. Absolutely. I quite enjoy reading single comics on my tablet now that I have a decent size screen but the price point is not good.


Actually, i hold that e-books will never take over from hard copy reading material... Oh sure i'll occassionally read stuff on my computer, but even so i would much rather a phyisical copy. The flaws of a digital medium are just to many to make digital the viable go to medium: Price point being one of the bigger ones.

The_Watchman wrote:I go to trades for my main reading. Reasonably priced Print on Demand would be a huge deal. Sadly, I think it's going to be a very slow, painful journey for Marvel and DC out of the business as usual mindset that dominates them.


What, you don't think the company that waited until digital was on the way out to get involved, will be quick to pick this up? Yeah, i'm pretty sure you are right.

The_Watchman wrote:It would almost certainly be the death knell for a lot of FLCS unless they could find some way to integrate the system (like if the Print on Demand resources were actually feasible for a comic store to have in house) but I think that's already a certainty.


Thats the good thing. The FLCS cannot store all the old stuff, its just to much, but they can order stuff in, in specific small numbers. So a customer comes in & asks for a complete run of Nightwing, the FLCS can order that, without fear of it being out of print. It wouldn't be any different to how amazon works now in regards to book stores now. Plus given time such a company could also become the LULU of indi comic printing & would encourage diversity of material in non boutique book stores.

No longer would comic stores have to say "i'm sorry but thats out of print." An when we get as far as "customer specific trades" you just know FLCS's will start advertising unique, one of a kind collections, signed by specific creators.

The_Watchman wrote:Unfortunately, the specter of the speculator boom has never left the comic industry and the current system is deeply entrenched. It seems like feasible and reasonable cost POD would put a (well-deserved) knife into Diamond once and for all which they will use all their power to prevent.


Not if they put in a release delay on licensing trades to this third party. DC makes the money on initial DC trade releases, they ship through Diamond & years end they are licensed to the POD company to produce. This would give Diamond a chance to adapt, or perish, but would also generate a profit, as the product becomes ever green, the same way many novel publishers are currently doing.

Heck the company could licence Marvels backlog too, a WB subsidarary could literally make a profit off the competition.

But yeah that would result in the final death of the speculators bubble & not a moment to soon... The only prople making money off the speculators market is people who grade the comics: Because a comic book you can not read is by definition, no longer a book.

The_Watchman wrote:Comics are in a place not unlike video games. The digital revolution offers so many possibilities but the uncertainties have left many publishers clinging to the business as usual mindset no matter how much it may cost down the line. It's clearly not working looking at all the publishers closing their doors and the falling equity of companies like EA compared to the more forward thinking companies like Valve. But it's not likely to change until the board is basically cleared at the top.


Really the only people who suffer is Diamond & they've been crapping over the little guy for years, because there has been no alternative.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby The_Watchman » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 am

Thakowsaizmu wrote:Seeing stuff like what?


Putting people from New Jersey into comics, obviously. We don't want people thinking that being from New Jersey is something to emulate.
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:06 am

The_Watchman wrote:
Thakowsaizmu wrote:Seeing stuff like what?


Putting people from New Jersey into comics, obviously. We don't want people thinking that being from New Jersey is something to emulate.

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

Anyway, I know full well Marvel will have this title cancelled within no time. Her powers are atrocious. However, I am all for representation in the media. Just because a lot of straight white guys read comics doesn't mean it's only straight white guys. And what does this one title do to take away from all the straight white guy titles? Nothing. What does it do for someone else though? This:
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Re: Captain Marvel#1.......Again???

Postby Vexous » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:28 am

All the crap she's had dumped on her over the years, and they handed her title off to an Agenda. Not a different character or an apprentice, just some walking sales pitch.

Was I that naïve when I was a kid? I remember reading her first issue back in the 70's. Young white male not old enough to be interested in girls yet, well, not too interested anyway. I just read the books because I liked the character and the stories she was in, and seeing her smack around Modok was a plus too. They were just stories back then right? Sure, she was a women's libber but that wasn't the main focus of the book, we never had our faces shoved in it like it was the "be all" of the title.

Theres the problem though, they aren't selling a character with stories, they're selling a point of political correctness. Seriously, who wants to buy a comic to read something like that?


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