DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Discuss anything vaguely M&M related here, such as comics, movies, and action figures.
King Snarf
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3495
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Upper Darby, PA (Near Philly)
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby King Snarf » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:49 am

The most successful The Flash has ever been was during the Wally West years when Mark Waid and Geoff Johns were writing, and Wally's life was generally very good. Wife, good relationship with the police and community at large, stable friendships, and somehow Waid and Johns didn't have any problem coming up with conflict for him. Someone should just sit DiDio down in front of a TV and play the "Flash & Substance" episode from JL Unlimited and then ask him, "Is this a bad superhero story?" and if he says yes, you slap him repeatedly with a fish and make him watch it again.
Arriba Flight es muy macho!

Visit my blog! http://teentemplars.blogspot.com

Visit my author page!

User avatar
thaumonuclear
Comrade
Comrade
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:03 am
Location: The Vicinity of Earth
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby thaumonuclear » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:52 am

If he wanted to just say, "Generally I think this is what works best, and that's what we encourage our writers to do" that would be one thing, but him talking about his mandate and edict means he's unwilling to think about other sorts of stories.

And of course he uses Batman as his example, but he thinks all comics need to be Batman.

Darrin Kelley
Zealot
Zealot
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:13 pm

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Darrin Kelley » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:56 am

thaumonuclear wrote:And of course he uses Batman as his example, but he thinks all comics need to be Batman.


Except one thing here. He doesn't even want Batman to be Batman. He wants a dark and brooding characture to be Batman. With all other takes and elements that have made Batman who he was over the years to be completely bleached out.

The grim and gritty Batman has been for decades, a betrayal of the style and presentation that actually gave rise to its popularity in the 60's, in the first place. And that style was campy and light-hearted. With Batman having a wide broad-based appeal.

The advocates of the dark and gritty Batman can't escape the one overriding fact of this matter. That the grim and gritty Batman has never and will never reach the sheer heights of popularity that the campy and light-hearted Batman did. That show became beloved by generations of fans.

The more they have focused on a grim and gritty Batman, the more they continue to alienate that core audience. It shows the gross mismanagement of the property that has been going on for decades..

JetstreamGW
Daredevil
Daredevil
Posts: 733
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:38 pm

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby JetstreamGW » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:06 pm

Y'know what my favorite part about the Flash was back in the Silver age comics? And, indeed, before Rebirth? I'm talking about Barry here.

He didn't have anything tragic in his backstory. Not a damn thing.

He was a cop. He got superpowers. He decided to use them for the betterment of mankind. Just because he could.

He dated and then married Iris West. He continued doing the superhero thing. They had a good realtionship. Sure, she eventually got axed by Thawne, but it was kind of a cool story honestly, and one that got undone by her parents' freaky super tech within about a hundred or more issues.

Why did he have a strong sense of morality? Because he did. He was raised that way. He was a good man who did good things because they were the right thing to do.

Then Rebirth happened and suddenly his father had been framed for murdering his mother and oh please shut up...

User avatar
Ares
Hero
Hero
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Ares » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:49 pm

JetstreamGW wrote:Y'know what my favorite part about the Flash was back in the Silver age comics? And, indeed, before Rebirth? I'm talking about Barry here.

He didn't have anything tragic in his backstory. Not a damn thing.

He was a cop. He got superpowers. He decided to use them for the betterment of mankind. Just because he could.

He dated and then married Iris West. He continued doing the superhero thing. They had a good realtionship. Sure, she eventually got axed by Thawne, but it was kind of a cool story honestly, and one that got undone by her parents' freaky super tech within about a hundred or more issues.

Why did he have a strong sense of morality? Because he did. He was raised that way. He was a good man who did good things because they were the right thing to do.

Then Rebirth happened and suddenly his father had been framed for murdering his mother and oh please shut up...


My sentiments exactly. Before Rebirth, Barry was just a guy who was raised well who wanted to be a cop, and after he got superpowers, he emulated his childhood hero. Rebirth paints this notion that the ONLY reason Barry became a cop was to clear his dad and solve his mom's murder. The implications of which are just bonkers. They took one of DC's most level headed, down to Earth and well-adjusted heroes, and Batmaned his origin. Because no cop gets into the job because unless he's got a tragic backstory.

User avatar
Ares
Hero
Hero
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Ares » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:23 pm

Darrin Kelley wrote:
thaumonuclear wrote:And of course he uses Batman as his example, but he thinks all comics need to be Batman.


Except one thing here. He doesn't even want Batman to be Batman. He wants a dark and brooding characture to be Batman. With all other takes and elements that have made Batman who he was over the years to be completely bleached out.

The grim and gritty Batman has been for decades, a betrayal of the style and presentation that actually gave rise to its popularity in the 60's, in the first place. And that style was campy and light-hearted. With Batman having a wide broad-based appeal.

The advocates of the dark and gritty Batman can't escape the one overriding fact of this matter. That the grim and gritty Batman has never and will never reach the sheer heights of popularity that the campy and light-hearted Batman did. That show became beloved by generations of fans.

The more they have focused on a grim and gritty Batman, the more they continue to alienate that core audience. It shows the gross mismanagement of the property that has been going on for decades..


I'm not sure about this. The Nolan-verse Batman has proven very popular, as has the more balanced Batman: The Animated Series and The Batman, though Batman: The Brave and the Bold was fun and popular as well. I think all of the major renditions of Batman have found an audience, but the character has grown and evolved to have multiple facets to him, so that there are multiple renditions of him.

I basically agree with what Batmite/Paul Dini had to say in one episode of Brave and the Bold. That Batman's rich history allows for multiple interpretations of the character. My favorite takes on the character are probably the ones from Batman: TAS and The Batman. Both had the right combo of detective, gadgeteer and ninja, both were appropriately dark and intimidating to criminals while still having a lot of genuine warmth, compassion and humor to them.

User avatar
Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Voltron64 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:17 pm

Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

King Snarf
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3495
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Upper Darby, PA (Near Philly)
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby King Snarf » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:45 pm

Ares wrote:I'm not sure about this. The Nolan-verse Batman has proven very popular, as has the more balanced Batman: The Animated Series


You answered it yourself- Batman: The Animated Series worked because it was balanced. Yes, they had some angst, but they had light-hearted moments in there as well. They had Batman crack wise every now and then.
Arriba Flight es muy macho!

Visit my blog! http://teentemplars.blogspot.com

Visit my author page!

User avatar
Thakowsaizmu
Zealot
Zealot
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 12:28 am
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:44 pm

My issue with the whole Batman argument is that Batman does have something worth fighting for, and has a reason to have a somewhat happy personal life. Yeah, Batman is a pretty grim-dark comic, but there are points of light. Above and beyond his fighting for what made him Batman, he has a whole extended surrogate family that is definitely something that keeps him going and allows happiness.

Essentially, DiDio is a clown.
♀♥♀
百年如石、一點如漆

User avatar
Devastation Bob
Sidekick
Sidekick
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:27 pm
Location: Geosynchronous orbit over Madagascar
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Devastation Bob » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:59 am

I'll buy DC comics again when he's gone...maybe.
We really shook the pillars of heaven, didn't we, Wang? --Jack Burton

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:51 pm

Thakowsaizmu wrote:Essentially, DiDio is a clown.


Didio was the guy who green lit Final Crisis & hated the book '52', only to call his failed 'Countdown' series "52 done right." The same guy who wanted to kill off Nightwing & brought back Barry Allen... I think clown might be understating it just a little... Arse-clown would certianly be closer.

Devastation Bob wrote:I'll buy DC comics again when he's gone...maybe.


Its going to take more then that for me: the reboot burnt to many bridges on its way to slaughter to many holy cows, which by application of a very esoteric Gold Ruberg machine dropped that final straw onto a camels back, breaking its spine & crippling it for life. The NU52 is essentially "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'" in practice, to the point that i don't think the NU52 could actually survive everyone not being miserable... Kind of like how British comics can't survive everyone not being miserable.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

User avatar
Devastation Bob
Sidekick
Sidekick
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:27 pm
Location: Geosynchronous orbit over Madagascar
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Devastation Bob » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:59 pm

With so many titles to waste, it seems like a missed opportunity to not try the happy lives vs. tragic poo-storm lives and see which sells better. If there's 52 different damn dimensions, surely one doesn't suck frog-ass.
Last edited by Devastation Bob on Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We really shook the pillars of heaven, didn't we, Wang? --Jack Burton

User avatar
Mr Mole
Firebrand
Firebrand
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am
Location: Washington (the state, not the district)

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby Mr Mole » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:02 pm

saint_matthew wrote:...which by application of a very esoteric Gold Ruberg machine...

Is that an intentional, pop culture spin on Rube Goldberg, indicating a distinction I'm unfamiliar with...? Or was it just a typo...? If the former, I'm intrigued... :roll:

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:22 pm

Mr Mole wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:...which by application of a very esoteric Gold Ruberg machine...

Is that an intentional, pop culture spin on Rube Goldberg, indicating a distinction I'm unfamiliar with...? Or was it just a typo...? If the former, I'm intrigued... :roll:


Its the DC alternate reality version... You know, kinda like Sundollar is the DC version of Starbucks... I was wondering if anyone would pick that up. :lol:
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

King Snarf
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3495
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Upper Darby, PA (Near Philly)
Contact:

Re: DiDio: "Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives'"

Postby King Snarf » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:47 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Mr Mole wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:...which by application of a very esoteric Gold Ruberg machine...

Is that an intentional, pop culture spin on Rube Goldberg, indicating a distinction I'm unfamiliar with...? Or was it just a typo...? If the former, I'm intrigued... :roll:


Its the DC alternate reality version... You know, kinda like Sundollar is the DC version of Starbucks... I was wondering if anyone would pick that up. :lol:


I always HATED some of the made up stuff, as that really destroys the connection that this is just like our world. Gamestation and *ugh* SODER Cola. The worst though is that people don't watch Letterman or Leno, they watch Whitty Banter (get it? His first name's probably Whitman, but as a nickname it sounds like "witty"! ... Kill me.) When I first saw it, I thought it was a typo. There was a scene where Kyle Rayner was flirting/ working with a model, and he says, "How about some Whitty Banter?" and she in her somewhat revealing attire says "Oh, I LOVE Whitty Banter!" and I'm thinking, "It's good that they find conversation a good romantic stimulator, but MAN is that some odd pillow talk."
Arriba Flight es muy macho!

Visit my blog! http://teentemplars.blogspot.com

Visit my author page!


Return to “Sidekicks Lounge”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests