Mutants & Masterminds
HQ    ABOUT M&M    SUPER-VISION    GIMMICK'S GADGETS    M&M SUPERLINK    ATOMIC THINK TANK    M&M SHOP
Saving the world, one d20 roll at a time

All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Discuss anything vaguely M&M related here, such as comics, movies, and action figures.

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby savijmuhdrox » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:01 am

Wow. As much as I just haven't enjoyed a lot of what DC has been doing recently.. that Captain Marvel/Shazam preview was downright... decent.

The artwork is good, the flow and dynamic of the action is good... and this is something numerous titles are missing.

As for the portrayal of the character? I can only think.. hey.. he's a kid.. you can't expect him to be this goody two shoes.. All complaints about this character being replaced with some brat are expecting something that kinda makes no sense.. and after reading this preview, there's defnlee a sense of foreboding redemption about the boy.. i think the writers are putting forth effort and thought into this new book..

The name change and history? hmmm.. that does seem odd and unnecessary.. but heck.. the wizard died.. he possibly just didn't have time to get into it, being that he was about to go all Obi-Wan on the kid.. they can get to this stuff later..

and the costume.. okay.. the upper body lines and stuff? myeh.. that doesn't work for me either.. a little too inspired by everyone upgrading to 'armor' these days..

but overall, that preview almost encourages me to give it a shot (heck, maybe thats all it was designed to do, and the rest of the comic is black and white).. at the very least, this seems like a book thats being given more of a polish them some of the others out there.. I can only take so much of Suicide Squad right now before i give up.. so perhaps i will replace it with this.. and if it gets crappy, i'll be sure to let 'teh internets' know.
For a healthy dose of stupid, @Railbended
User avatar
savijmuhdrox
Henchman
Henchman
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 am

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Ares » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:24 pm

savijmuhdrox wrote:Wow. As much as I just haven't enjoyed a lot of what DC has been doing recently.. that Captain Marvel/Shazam preview was downright... decent.


I don't want to get into a back and forth regarding something that is obviously your opinion, because I'm happy anyone can find some enjoyment out of the mess that is the Nu52. However, I would just like to address your points, and either agree or offer counterpoints.

The artwork is good, the flow and dynamic of the action is good... and this is something numerous titles are missing.


This I can agree with. Like I said, Frank gives us glimpes of the actual Captain Marvel at times, everything flows well, even if I don't like a lot of the character designs.

As for the portrayal of the character? I can only think.. hey.. he's a kid.. you can't expect him to be this goody two shoes.. All complaints about this character being replaced with some brat are expecting something that kinda makes no sense.. and after reading this preview, there's defnlee a sense of foreboding redemption about the boy.. i think the writers are putting forth effort and thought into this new book..


This is my major point of disagreement with you. Yeah, Billy's a 12 year old kid. So? Kids are tougher, smarter and more resilient than a lot of people give them credit. Does every kid that's ever suffered a tragedy turn out to be a self-centered brat? No, that's not how it works. Whenever someone faces a tragedy, they usually either become embittered by that tragedy, or they gain empathy for people because of that suffering. It's why you see kids who have lost loved ones reach out to other kids in similar situations, why victims of abuse often help start charitable organizations to coutner abuse, and sometimes work as councilers for people with similar problems.

Billy Batson was suppose to be the kid that suffered, but through suffering gained empathy for people around him and refused to let the world get him down. He was suppose to be a well adjusted kid that had the inner strength not to let the world turn him bitter. In short, he was a 12 year old version of the Steve Rogers we saw in "Captain America: The First Avenger", but with a bit more of a sense of humor. He was suppose to be someone optimistic and who we could clearly see as being worthy of wielding the power of the gods.

This kid? This kid is just every other sterotype about a kid of suffered a tragedy and become darker and bitter because of it, but the goodness is still there so he can be an edgy jerk with a heart of gold. It'd actually be less cliche at this point for Billy to still be a decent kid at this point than for them to go this route.

Let's compare Billy to, say, Aang from Avatar: The Last Airbender. They're both about the same age, both suffered tremendous losses, and both have been given great abilities and even greater responsibilities, and both of them could not be more different in terms of portrayal. And the thing is, Aang lost his entire civilization, everyone he ever knew and loved, and had an entire country trying to kill him, and he STILL held on to his noble and kind hearted attitude, rather than becoming some emo punktard that makes little girls cry and claims that no one understands his pain. And you can't say "Well, Avatar is a kid's show", because it's a shwo that included the concept of genocide and a father who scarred his own son's face while saying "You will learn respect, and suffering will be your teacher". Shows like Avatar and Gargoyles handle their characters and stories with more care and nuance than stuff like this anyday.

So no, I don't buy into the notion that this Billy Batson is more of a real character than the previous one. All they've done is turn one of the few unapologetically optimistic, idealistic and well-adjusted heroes out there, and turned him into another angst driven teenager with issues. But I'm not surprised, they did it to Blue Beetle, why not do it to Billy Batson as well.

The name change and history? hmmm.. that does seem odd and unnecessary.. but heck.. the wizard died.. he possibly just didn't have time to get into it, being that he was about to go all Obi-Wan on the kid.. they can get to this stuff later..


I can understand the logic behind changing Cap to Shazam, given the legal issues of putting the name Captain Marvel on products. It doesn't make the idea any less stupid tho, since the character has had more exposure in animated series and video games in the last 10 years than he has in the comics, and in all of them he was refered to as Captain Marvel, not Shazam, so all they've done is needlessly complicate things. For that matter, kids are smarter than people think. They can recognize the difference between a franchise and a character's name. It doesn't take a kid long to realize that the series might be Legend of Zelda or Metroid, but the heroes are Link and Samus respectively.

It's just a lazy way to divorce Cap from most of his classic mythos and go for the most simple, bare bones explanation for his abilities. The Wisdom of Solomon, Strength of Hercules, Stamina of Atlas, Power of Zeus, Courage of Achilles and Speed of Mercury are gone, replaced with him having the power of The Living Lightning and the ability to cast spells. They've basically just turned him into a kid version of Dr. Fate with a Hood.

and the costume.. okay.. the upper body lines and stuff? myeh.. that doesn't work for me either.. a little too inspired by everyone upgrading to 'armor' these days..


Agreed.

but overall, that preview almost encourages me to give it a shot (heck, maybe thats all it was designed to do, and the rest of the comic is black and white).. at the very least, this seems like a book thats being given more of a polish them some of the others out there.. I can only take so much of Suicide Squad right now before i give up.. so perhaps i will replace it with this.. and if it gets crappy, i'll be sure to let 'teh internets' know.


By all means, check it out, and if you like it, well, like I said, more power to you. For my part tho, it feels just so very bland and safe. It's obvious they're going to use Black Adam as a wake up call of "Hey, Billy, this could be you if you don't straighten up", and they've made it clear they're going to go with the "Your real power is your family" and "Family is who sticks with you when things are rough", morals, which wouldn't be so bad if they weren't being even more blatant about it than a Disney Movie. I keep expecting to hear about how "Ohana means family" as this story continues.

In short, I feel like someone who use to enjoy classic Star Trek, Next Generation and Deep Space Nine being forced to endure Voyager and Enterprise. Or to be even more clear, a Transformers fan having to watch the Michael Bay films.
User avatar
Ares
Hero
Hero
 
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:44 am

@Ares: Ditto, pretty much everything you just said. Turning Billy Batson into a complete arsehole due to "realism" is like turning Superman chinese because of realism... I mean what does that even mean?

As for changing his name to Shazam, who ever got confused by the comic not having his name on it? Do kids point at Superman & shout "there goes action comics?"

An yeah, i'd agree that the "family is who sticks by you" message is being layered on with a shovel at this point.

I've been a Captain Marvel fan for years & frankly DC's use of him in the past has been pretty bad: But what they are doing with him now even makes Trial of Shazam look like an interesting, well nuanced , accurate use of the character.

If people are getting something out of it, thats cool, but thats not Captain Marvel, thats some completely different character, unrecognisable to fans.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov
User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
 
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Walking Dad » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:02 am

saint_matthew wrote:...

As for changing his name to Shazam, who ever got confused by the comic not having his name on it? Do kids point at Superman & shout "there goes action comics?"

...

Funny, in my country he was known as "Shazam" first and I was confused when I saw him as "Captain Marvel". Epically as there is more one one hero with this name in the Marvel comic universe.
Never liked the name and being unable to speak his own name is a gag getting old very fast.

BTW, I liked Trials of Shazam
English isn't my native language. Have patience, please.

WD's PbP characters (3e)
Martian Manhunter builds
User avatar
Walking Dad
Luminary
Luminary
 
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:51 am
Location: Germany

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby K.G. Carlson » Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:08 am

Ares wrote:I can understand the logic behind changing Cap to Shazam, given the legal issues of putting the name Captain Marvel on products. It doesn't make the idea any less stupid tho, since the character has had more exposure in animated series and video games in the last 10 years than he has in the comics, and in all of them he was refered to as Captain Marvel, not Shazam, so all they've done is needlessly complicate things. For that matter, kids are smarter than people think. They can recognize the difference between a franchise and a character's name. It doesn't take a kid long to realize that the series might be Legend of Zelda or Metroid, but the heroes are Link and Samus respectively.


I am still holding out hope that with this painfully slow relaunch of the character that Billy will decide he needs a cool super-hero sounding name like Captain Marvel. Yes, I know Johns has claimed otherwise, but that was months ago and the Big Red Cheese has yet to be given an appellation within the narrative and perhaps editorial has given a rethink to the relabeling.
"More powerful than a locomotive...and about as subtle!"
--Joker

Say goodbye to gravity, say goodbye to death
Hello to eternity and live for every breath
-The Wicker Man, Iron Maiden
User avatar
K.G. Carlson
Zealot
Zealot
 
Posts: 1198
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: wandering between worlds

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby greycrusader » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:29 pm

My take on an Earth-One treatment of Billy Batson/Captain Marvel (or Shazam, if one must):

Billy Batson is a homeless kid-a twelve year old orphaned boy, escaped from an abusive institution or foster home, living on the streets and partnered with a older, long-time vagrant and petty con man named Dudley (CM fans will get the reference); Billy is a genuinely decent and caring young man, forced by the circumstances of his existence to lie, participate in petty swindles, and occasionally steal (foods, medicine, and yes, books). Billy is still polite to his elders, kind to others even less fortunate than he, sharing what little he has, standing up to bullies, and carrying a secret list of the people Billy has sworn to someday pay back for everything he or Dudley have pilferred.

One night Billy gives in to temptation and steals an expensive toy from one of the homeless kids' frequent tormentors, the rich and cruel Sivana Jr, son of industrialist T. Sivana. Though initially happy to finally be in possession of one worthwhile thing, Billy has never stolen for selfish reasons before, and quickly realizes the deed was wrong, no matter how awful Sivana Jr. may be. Attempting to return the toy, Billy is spotted by a police officer who mistakes the boy's intent. Running as fast as he can, Billy soon becomes lost, in a section of the city he doesn't recognize; with night falling and snow falling, he seeks refuge in an old subway tunnel....

SHAZAM!

Black Adam would be presented as a fallen champion, a man whose greatest sin is not his wrathfulness but his pride-the self-righteous Adam believes that everything he does is justified, that the ends justify his means. Billy, even under the worst of conditions, always recognizes right from wrong. This is why he deserves the Power of Shazam and will not be corrupted by the Wizard's gifts.

As for the magic word itself, I'd like it a bit vague as to what the letters themselves represent...just include a scene "in the distant past" where seven great champions came together (demigods, warriors, wizards, sages), each pledging a part of their gifts to humanity's protector, the World's Mightiest Mortal.
The Contingent: When all other super teams fail...
greycrusader
Superhero
Superhero
 
Posts: 1876
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:30 am
Location: 15 Mechling Way Greensurg PA 15601

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby King Snarf » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:12 am

I'll say it- the ideal portrayal of Captain Marvel was done by Jeff Smith. His book modernized Cap without taking away the core sense of fun and whimsy that is an INTEGRAL part of the character.
Arriba Flight es muy macho!

Visit my blog! http://teentemplars.blogspot.com

Visit my author page!
King Snarf
Paragon
Paragon
 
Posts: 3495
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:01 am
Location: Upper Darby, PA (Near Philly)

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby savijmuhdrox » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:23 am

Ares wrote:
savijmuhdrox wrote:Wow. As much as I just haven't enjoyed a lot of what DC has been doing recently.. that Captain Marvel/Shazam preview was downright... decent.


I don't want to get into a back and forth regarding something that is obviously your opinion, because I'm happy anyone can find some enjoyment out of the mess that is the Nu52. However, I would just like to address your points, and either agree or offer counterpoints.


That's entirely fine. Thats what the internet is here for, amazingly.. and it works so much better when kept civil.

The major point we have not in common is the portrayal of Billy and I can only agree that to make him a super-douche would be horrible.. and all this edgy emo stuff is not.. well.. edgy and cool anymore.

But if I do pick this up, I'm gonna wanna see the powers and comic CHANGE with Billy... he's going to learn a bunch of stuff.. maybe he does have that heart of gold, but the world has made it bitter and soot-covered, I'm gonna sit back for a well-drawn and narrated ride as he cleans it off and shines like a hero. I def do not want to read an ongoing where the hero is always a lil snot-nosed brat.. that would get old real fast.

Capt Marvel/Shazam was MY action figure when me and my bro were kids.. he got superman, so i took Shazam (which is probably why the name issue doesn't bother me, up until what? 10 years ago, I thought that WAS his name).. so maybe my lack of association with the character is why this change isn't aggravating me as much as say.. Robotman's current lack of a nose (ARGH!!!)

All we can really say is "we shall see"...
For a healthy dose of stupid, @Railbended
User avatar
savijmuhdrox
Henchman
Henchman
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:38 am

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:22 pm

Um, ookay a little off topic, but i figure here is the perfect place to get an answer.

I'm looking for a product that may or may not exist. I was surfing Amazon when i saw a cover for either a trade or a novel with the Electric Superman symbol on the cover... Unfortunately i didn't see it until i was clicking off the page. I went back but couldn't find it.

So my question is, has anyone seen this book & if so is it an electric Superman trade, because i would like to purchase that book.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov
User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
 
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby GrayPumpkin » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:07 pm

User avatar
GrayPumpkin
Superhero
Superhero
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:57 pm
Location: Austin TX

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:16 pm

GrayPumpkin wrote:Is this what you are looking for?
http://www.amazon.com/Superman-Transfor ... ransformed!


Thats the one. Has anyone ever told you that you are a god among men.

*hugs graypumpkin*

Thanks, i can add this to my increasingly lengthy trade purchase list. :D
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov
User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
 
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Shock » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:54 am

So I read Batman #0 and at one point there's a splash that says "continued in 2013." Are they really trying to do a story that will be told with just a couple of pages a year? What number will the issue be next September when they continue the story? 0.5?
Shock
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
 
Posts: 12051
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 pm

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:36 am

Shock wrote:So I read Batman #0 and at one point there's a splash that says "continued in 2013." Are they really trying to do a story that will be told with just a couple of pages a year? What number will the issue be next September when they continue the story? 0.5?


Mate, what can i tell ya? DC & Marvel have both lost any business acumen over the last couple of years... I could believe that you wont get more of that story until next year, see how long it took for Avengers & New Avengers Annual to come out from Marvel last year... 6 months to get the second issue of a 2 part story.

So happy i swapped over to trades & trades of stuff a few years old. The longest i have to way is between the time i order something & the time it arrives. :roll:
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov
User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
 
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby GrayPumpkin » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:11 pm

A couple of fellow comic book geeks with backgrounds in economics do some number crunching on DCnU sales in order to gauge how various factors like creators, characters, price, have affected said sales. They freely admit that this one done mostly for fun, it's not a truly comprehensive study, but I post here as it touches on some the discussions we've had.
http://www.comicscube.com/2012/09/dcnu- ... gle+Reader
User avatar
GrayPumpkin
Superhero
Superhero
 
Posts: 1940
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:57 pm
Location: Austin TX

Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:16 pm

GrayPumpkin wrote:A couple of fellow comic book geeks with backgrounds in economics do some number crunching on DCnU sales in order to gauge how various factors like creators, characters, price, have affected said sales. They freely admit that this one done mostly for fun, it's not a truly comprehensive study, but I post here as it touches on some the discussions we've had.
http://www.comicscube.com/2012/09/dcnu- ... gle+Reader


I laughed so hard when i read this. I'll freely admit that i'm no mathematician.... Can't even spell the word 9 times out of ten, but i found this amusing. The conclusion that they seem to get from all this SALES data is this: DC sold some comics & the ones in the top 10 sold better then the ones that weren't. Also some creators are more popular then others.

As far as maths is concerned, this was kind of like using game theory to prove that sex is enjoyable, or using algebra to prove that packing peanut are a better packing solution then a food stuff.

Still i suppose its better then finding out about Dihydrogen Monoxide for the first time.

In case you don't know Dihydrogen Monoxide is deadly, it is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain, it contributes to the "greenhouse effect," may cause severe burns, is fatal if inhaled, contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape, accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals, may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes, has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Yet despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used as an industrial solvent and coolant.
An top this day is used as a fire retardant, in many forms of cruel animal research, in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical. as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Dihydrogen Monoxide is deadly... Science tells us so.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov
User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
 
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

PreviousNext

Return to Sidekicks Lounge



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests