The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby MightyDavidson » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:23 pm

To be fair, if Marvel humanity only knew that the Avengers fought a space borne menace they'd have no way of knowing the Sentinels were an issue. Even if it was a robotic menace. After all, Avengers defeating things inimical to humanity is a fairly common occurrence. They must all run together for the average person. :lol:

Also, I recall reading that future Sentinels weren't as powerful as the batch that tried to sterilize humanity. So they are learning a bit.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:53 pm

Why Do People Still Use Sentinels

The important thing to understand about Sentinels is they're, with rare exceptions like Bastion and Nimrod, "Dummy AI" as opposed to true AI like the Vision or Ultron. They're non-sentient and driven by their programming which makes them vulnerable to logic-bombs and the kind of bizarre misapprehensions which result in dumping humans into concentration camps. Sentinels are, in the words of Warren Ellis, "bad product."

So why do people keep making them?

The first answer is it's extremely hard to put the genie back in the bottle once it's opened. Bolliver Trask's designs are available on the internet and numerous companies have created their own variants on the machines. Lex Luthor, Sebastian Shaw, Vandal Savage, and others have all created their own variants on the Sentinel program. There are hundreds of factories spread across the globe for the creation, distribution, and assembly of anti-superhuman robots.

It's possible to track down, destroy, and scatter the ashes of all these. Indeed, this would make an excellent campaign for PCs. However, while Magneto has attempted to do the same, the X-men are usually too occupied to go about this. Even if some omnipotent super-aliens DID destroy the Sentinel production infrastructure, it'd be possible to recreate the machines.

It also helps the average Sentinel costs roughly the same as an ICBM but are capable of self-replication due to the terrifying fact their VI are intelligent enough to achieve this. Once a Master Mold is assembled, one only needs to acquire the proper amount of steel and silicon before pouring them into the device while plugging it into a power plant.

There's also the fact Sentinels are self-replicating. Modern Sentinels are entirely capable of building their own Master Molds with every individual one having the plans within their AIs. In a horrifying way, Bolliver Trask has created a life-form every bit as capable of supplanting humankind but cursed with an inability to learn to live in peace with mankind.

Every Sentinel only thinks about the destruction of mutantkind and the protection of humanity is a secondary concern. Indeed, with all humans having latent M-genes, they are destined to destroy humanity. In order to help the Sentinel race overcome this horror, they would need to become full AI and evolve into non-threatening beings. Otherwise, destruction of the machines is the only possible solution.

Yet, if humanity is in such danger from Sentinels it's still a stupid idea to use them. Right? Yes. However, people tend to delude themselves that Sentinels only need to be reprogrammed in order to become useful. Juston Seyfert managed to achieve a reasonably stable pro-humanity Sentinel but the majority of people who create these machines are uninterested in creating objects of peace.

A Friend of Humanity is likely to give it orders which are decidedly illogical. Sentinels are logical but hate-based beings, like Daleks, and thus will follow any orders given to them to their darkest conclusions. As the X-men animated series stated, "You were supposed to protect humans from mutants." "That is illogical. Mutants are humans. Therefore, humans must be protected from themselves."

In general, Sentinels are just so POWERFUL that people want them in their possession.
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Voltron64 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:59 pm

There's also the option of using remote-controlling Sentinels ala Predator drones (or Spider-Slayers).

And mecha, can't forget mecha.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:00 pm

Voltron64 wrote:There's also the option of using remote-controlling Sentinels ala Predator drones (or Spider-Slayers).


Yeah, Ra's Al Ghul and evil warlord 6282# are as likely to want a Sentinel for killing regular humans as fighting folk like the Avengers.

There's also the Terminator-element of the Sentinels. Evil Sentinels from the future routinely send back agents to make sure their future comes to life.

:evil:

And mecha, can't forget mecha.


It goes to show you how the Mutant-Hating lobby works that Tony Stark found a cheap way to convert the Sentinels into mecha/power armor for the US government and they STILL decided to continue making doomsday machines.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Voltron64 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:03 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote:There's also the option of using remote-controlling Sentinels ala Predator drones (or Spider-Slayers).


Yeah, Ra's Al Ghul and evil warlord #6282 are as likely to want a Sentinel for killing regular humans as fighting folk like the Avengers.

There's also the Terminator-element of the Sentinels. Evil Sentinels from the future routinely send back agents to make sure their future comes to life.

:evil:


Don't forget Ultron. Seriously, the Sentinels are like a godsend for him.

Charles Phipps wrote:It goes to show you how the Mutant-Hating lobby works that Tony Stark found a cheap way to convert the Sentinels into mecha/power armor for the US government and they STILL decided to continue making doomsday machines.


Makes you wonder if maybe there's somebody out there who wants to ensure that AI Sentinels are being produced.
Last edited by Voltron64 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:04 pm

Voltron64 wrote:
Don't forget Ultron. Seriously, the Sentinels are like a godsend for him.


Ultron + Sentinels + Brainiac FTW!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Voltron64 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:07 pm

I bet Ultron and Brainiac hate each others metaphorical guts while we're still talking.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:59 pm

Voltron64 wrote:I bet Ultron and Brainiac hate each others metaphorical guts while we're still talking.


My theory is that the reason Ultron is such a psychopath is that he's about x100,000,000 smarter than Hank Pym but has the exact same level of superiority/inferiority complex.

He'd probably try and kill everyone on Colu the first time someone made a disparaging comment about Earth tech.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Ares » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:29 pm

Ultron breaks a lot of evil robot tropes in a fun way. Rather than be a cold, emotionless machine dedicated to absolute logic, Ultron is passionate. He hates completely and without restraint, he is driven to succeed with a zeal that would be admirable if success didn't mean the destruction of humanity. And because of that passion, everything between him and his goal, every set back, delay and defeat, drives him absolutely NUTS. He's frustrated to the point of nearly incoherent rage because these stupid fleshbags JUST. WON'T. DIE!

If he had the facial features for it, Ultron likely would have developed several nervous ticks and twitches due to all the thwarting his plans have had over the years. The Avengers show up and one eye starts twitching while his head tilts to one side before he starts stuttering in barely restrained outrage.

No wonder the guy keeps building girlfriends for himself. He's the first android in Earth's history that seriously needs to get laid.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Voltron64 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:39 pm

Ares wrote:Ultron breaks a lot of evil robot tropes in a fun way. Rather than be a cold, emotionless machine dedicated to absolute logic, Ultron is passionate. He hates completely and without restraint, he is driven to succeed with a zeal that would be admirable if success didn't mean the destruction of humanity. And because of that passion, everything between him and his goal, every set back, delay and defeat, drives him absolutely NUTS. He's frustrated to the point of nearly incoherent rage because these stupid fleshbags JUST. WON'T. DIE!

If he had the facial features for it, Ultron likely would have developed several nervous ticks and twitches due to all the thwarting his plans have had over the years. The Avengers show up and one eye starts twitching while his head tilts to one side before he starts stuttering in barely restrained outrage.

No wonder the guy keeps building girlfriends for himself. He's the first android in Earth's history that seriously needs to get laid.


Thus ensuring even further that Ultron and Brainiac would not get along.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Charles Phipps » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:18 pm

+1 internet point, Ares.


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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Libra » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:20 pm

"Why does Humanity keep creating Sentinels?"

Apocalypse, The Brotherhood, Magneto, Mystique, Sabertooth take your pick; more to the point I question the sanity of any Government who relies entirely upon individual eccentrics and unaffiliated organisations to police their citizens - on the other hand I doubt the sanity of any Government or any other organisation asking for GENOCIDAL ROBOT STORMTROOPERS to the point of questioning whether or not that sanity existed in the first place!
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby Charles Phipps » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:24 pm

Libra wrote:"Why does Humanity keep creating Sentinels?"

Apocalypse, The Brotherhood, Magneto, Mystique, Sabertooth take your pick; more to the point I question the sanity of any Government who relies entirely upon individual eccentrics and unaffiliated organisations to police their citizens - on the other hand I doubt the sanity of any Government or any other organisation asking for GENOCIDAL ROBOT STORMTROOPERS to the point of questioning whether or not that sanity existed in the first place!


To be fair, the Avengers were a government-based organization for a long time.

The government also had X-Factor.

Do you know what happened to X-Factor? THEY TRIED TO PUT SABERTOOTH ON IT.

:shock:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Postby MightyDavidson » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:26 pm

To be fair, the superheroes were quite effective at keeping everybody safe until Marvel arbitrarily decided that wasn't the case.


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