Nitpicking about the Monitors

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samca
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Nitpicking about the Monitors

Postby samca » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:52 am

This isn't a big deal or even a proper complaint, but I figured it might be worth mentioning if anyone is interested. The DC Universe book's section on the Monitors doesn't get it quite right, which isn't surprising given just how weird and conceptual and semi-incoherent Final Crisis was.

The book treats the original Monitor and Anti-Monitor were totally separate from the later Monitors. This doesn't appear to be what Morrison was going for. The "probe" the Monitor sent into the multiverse actually was the original Monitor - that probe was unexpectedly affected by the nature of stories, and split into a good and evil version, thus creating the Anti-Monitor.

What's more, Dax Novu was also that same original Monitor. Thus, Final Crisis features the original Monitor from the Crisis coming back as a cosmic vampire that sucks the life out of stories. Because Grant Morrison, that's why.

samca
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Re: Nitpicking about the Monitors

Postby samca » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:47 am

Another thought - I'm not sure about making the Monitors PLX. While they are certainly vastly, ludicrously powerful, they are not completely beyond threat from non-omnipotent heroes. Remember, Supergirl nearly beat the Anti-Monitor to death with her bare hands; Superman from Earth-2 later put up a pretty decent fight, too.

PL19 or 20, sure, stats so high that non-cosmically powerful superheroes need not apply to take them on, but still a step lower than beings like Mxyzptlk, who are simply beyond any ability to actually challenge them.

greycrusader
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Re: Nitpicking about the Monitors

Postby greycrusader » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: the Monitors-remember, PL X just means "not quantified in game terms", not "all-powerful"; the latter is often taken as meaning, because often it is applied to cosmic-type characters whose feats are just rules-breakers or so stupendous as to render PC combat/interaction mostly meaningless. But Kid Eternity is listed as PL X, because his Summon is basically unbounded-he can summon and control any benevolent soul which has passed from the mortal realm. Not omnipotent, but also beyond the rules parameters.

The Monitors should just be given whatever abilities and PLs a gamemaster decides fits a given scenario. There are explicitly described as plot-devices in the truest sense.

All my best.
The Contingent: When all other super teams fail...

greycrusader
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Re: Nitpicking about the Monitors

Postby greycrusader » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: the Monitors-remember, PL X just means "not quantified in game terms", not "all-powerful"; the latter is often taken as meaning, because often it is applied to cosmic-type characters whose feats are just rules-breakers or so stupendous as to render PC combat/interaction mostly meaningless. But Kid Eternity is listed as PL X, because his Summon is basically unbounded-he can summon and control any benevolent soul which has passed from the mortal realm. Not omnipotent, but also beyond the rules parameters.

The Monitors should just be given whatever abilities and PLs a gamemaster decides fits a given scenario. There are explicitly described as plot-devices in the truest sense.

All my best.
The Contingent: When all other super teams fail...

Foreshadow
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Re: Nitpicking about the Monitors

Postby Foreshadow » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:32 am

One of those PL X characters, Infinity Man or one them, is basically built to PL 16 except for a PL X.

I"d say do that with the Monitor. Build to a certain PL, and then for some aspect leave it at PL X

In function, I see the anti-monitor sort of like Galactus, though he is really a blending of Thanos/Galactus, a reality-devourer, yet PL 20 works. Based on how the DCA characters are done, PL 20 is probably the highest you'd go or need to go. rank 30 power is probably fine as a softmax. If you did that, then +10 attack would be the result, and 20 damage Perception, Continuous would be pretty nasty. Can you go beyond that, sure, but based on the DCA characters that is toward the edge of the top-end.

Then take someone like the Spectre to playtest your little creation and see that much of the ranks and math will probably measure up and to me the Spectre is shown to be similar. It states he is true PL X when he is second only to the presence.

In Marvel, a guy like Eternity or Death are true PL X, or the Living Tribunal and those guys compared to the Monitor is a good question to ask. I'd like to hear others thoughts


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