Superman's Flight Array query?

Join the never-ending battle for truth and justice in the world's greatest super-hero universe, using the world's greatest super-hero roleplaying game! This forum is for discussion of DC ADVENTURES.
User avatar
Jhyarelle
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:47 pm

Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Jhyarelle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:50 am

Super Flight Array
Flight: Array (30 points)
• Flight 15 (64,000 MPH) • 30 points
• Quickness 7, Stacks with Super-Speed; Speed 15 (64,000
MPH) • 1 point
• Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) • 1 point


I'd like to assume that quickness was added to this array as he can do something as quickly as he is moving with his flight speed. So....

1) Why is there a separate 8 point stack-able Quickness outside of the Flight array?
2) Shouldn't he have a Speed Array as well since so he can move as fast as he is able to do things while not flying?
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't what I'm doing"
"I'm so clever that at sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I'm saying."

User avatar
Greyman
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2674
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:45 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Greyman » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:11 am

No, no. It's an array of alternate effects. Thus he can only use one of each bullet point at a time; changing between these "slots" as a free action just once per round.

1) That's why there's also Quickness outside the array. It's so he can perform routine checks quickly while also using Flight; just not as quickly as with the other slot.

2) He can use the stacked Quickness while using Speed; they occupy the same slot in the array. If Quickness 8 is not quick enough, he can switch to this slot and use Quickness 15; he just cannot fly while doing so, but Speed 15 means he can still cover a lot of ground.

The array is called "Flight" because that's for what it's mainly used; but it can also be used for speed and extra quickness. There doesn't need to be a separate "Speed" array because ... that would defeat the purpose of it being an array.

User avatar
Jhyarelle
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Jhyarelle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:50 am

Thanks that clears up what can be done in an array.

But I'm confused about Speed vs Quickness and how it applies to Superman. Quickness as it is, is being able to do routine things in short amount of time. Speed is movement over time. Why is Speed and Quickness split to two separate powers when they do pretty much the same thing? Likewise why doesn't Superman have Speed 10 as well since obviously he can move almost as fast as Flash? Is lit lack of Power Points or aesthetics?
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't what I'm doing"
"I'm so clever that at sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I'm saying."

User avatar
roguescribner
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:10 am

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby roguescribner » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:55 am

In M&M, Speed refers strictly to movement. That's it. Quickness refers to accomplishing tasks in a short amount of time. For example, Superman needs to catch a flying missile before it hits Metropolis. That's Speed. Superman needs to build a wall to prevent a small town from flooding after a dam breaks. That's quickness.

Speed and quickness can be used together, but they don't have to be.
GM - Age of Heroes Chapter 2
Sarvak - The Injustice Gang

User avatar
Jhyarelle
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Jhyarelle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:14 pm

roguescribner wrote:In M&M, Speed refers strictly to movement. That's it. Quickness refers to accomplishing tasks in a short amount of time. For example, Superman needs to catch a flying missile before it hits Metropolis. That's Speed. Superman needs to build a wall to prevent a small town from flooding after a dam breaks. That's quickness.

Speed and quickness can be used together, but they don't have to be.


That I can understand. But why does the MnM 3e Superman build not have Speed (inf not a Speed array) as one of his powers, only Quickness? Is it because of aesthetics or lack of PP ? I mean if you role play a foot race between Flash and Superman using MnM 3e, does that mean Superman has to use a sustained power stunt to temporarily have Speed movement power to race Flash? I know Superman can not run as fast as Flash but could keep up with him.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't what I'm doing"
"I'm so clever that at sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I'm saying."

User avatar
Greyman
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2674
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:45 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Greyman » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:09 am

Jhyarelle wrote:That I can understand. But why does the MnM 3e Superman build not have Speed (inf not a Speed array) as one of his powers, only Quickness? Is it because of aesthetics or lack of PP ? I mean if you role play a foot race between Flash and Superman using MnM 3e, does that mean Superman has to use a sustained power stunt to temporarily have Speed movement power to race Flash? I know Superman can not run as fast as Flash but could keep up with him.
Woah there!
Slow down and read the power again. It seems that you've missed an important piece of information.
Jhyarelle wrote:
Super Flight Array
Flight: Array (30 points)
• Flight 15 (64,000 MPH) • 30 points
Quickness 7, Stacks with Super-Speed; Speed 15 (64,000
MPH) • 1 point
• Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) • 1 point
Both Speed and stackable Quickness are the alternate effect. It's a composite of two effects in the one slot.


Alternate effects can be built from more than one effect. As in this case where Speed and Quickness can both be used at the same time. They occupy the same alternate effect 'slot'; being separated only by a semi-colon. They cannot be available at the same time as either Flight or Movement, which both occupy entirely different alternate effect slots - indicated by being separate the bullet points.

User avatar
Jhyarelle
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Jhyarelle » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:04 pm

Greyman wrote:
Jhyarelle wrote:That I can understand. But why does the MnM 3e Superman build not have Speed (inf not a Speed array) as one of his powers, only Quickness? Is it because of aesthetics or lack of PP ? I mean if you role play a foot race between Flash and Superman using MnM 3e, does that mean Superman has to use a sustained power stunt to temporarily have Speed movement power to race Flash? I know Superman can not run as fast as Flash but could keep up with him.
Woah there!
Slow down and read the power again. It seems that you've missed an important piece of information.
Jhyarelle wrote:
Super Flight Array
Flight: Array (30 points)
• Flight 15 (64,000 MPH) • 30 points
Quickness 7, Stacks with Super-Speed; Speed 15 (64,000
MPH) • 1 point
• Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) • 1 point
Both Speed and stackable Quickness are the alternate effect. It's a composite of two effects in the one slot.


Alternate effects can be built from more than one effect. As in this case where Speed and Quickness can both be used at the same time. They occupy the same alternate effect 'slot'; being separated only by a semi-colon. They cannot be available at the same time as either Flight or Movement, which both occupy entirely different alternate effect slots - indicated by being separate the bullet points.



Alright I see what you mean.

• Quickness 7, Stacks with Super-Speed; Speed 15 (64,000 MPH) • 1 point

He does have Speed 15 via the Flight array that stacks or can be used with Quickness 7. This means he can use either Flight as movement ability at its rank/level or speed movement at its rank/level but not both at the same time. It like having multiple on/off switches. Flight movement on but speed movement off and vice versa. Thanks. This has been bugging me since publication of Superman's Powers in MnM 3e.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't what I'm doing"
"I'm so clever that at sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I'm saying."

Rakumi
Hireling
Hireling
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:59 am

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Rakumi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:11 pm

The idea with an array is that it would not either make sense or fit the character to be doing these things at once. So it makes sense to say he can either fly at rank 15 or run because he surely cant be running and flying at the same time.

User avatar
HappyDaze
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2731
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby HappyDaze » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:04 am

Rakumi wrote:The idea with an array is that it would not either make sense or fit the character to be doing these things at once. So it makes sense to say he can either fly at rank 15 or run because he surely cant be running and flying at the same time.

But he might wish to transition from one to another and back in the same turn which the array would not allow. Consider using Flight, dropping into the water (where swimming goes off of Speed) to avoid radar for the last several miles of approach (he can go a long way in a single turn), then popping back into the air.

Stigger
Cohort
Cohort
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 am

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Stigger » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:33 am

That's what the aquatic extra is for? Don't recall him having that, but he should my book.

User avatar
roguescribner
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3430
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:10 am

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby roguescribner » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:35 am

Even if Flight and Speed were separated, he couldn't fly, swim, and fly again in one turn. That's 3 move actions. You get a standard and a move, and you can switch the standard for a move if you wish to. A move action permits you to move up to your speed rank in any one mode of movement. You can't mix and match.
GM - Age of Heroes Chapter 2
Sarvak - The Injustice Gang

User avatar
HappyDaze
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2731
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby HappyDaze » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:47 pm

roguescribner wrote:Even if Flight and Speed were separated, he couldn't fly, swim, and fly again in one turn. That's 3 move actions. You get a standard and a move, and you can switch the standard for a move if you wish to. A move action permits you to move up to your speed rank in any one mode of movement. You can't mix and match.

Is there really any good reason why you can't mix and match so long as your total movement is less than the slower of your two movement rates? If a character can has both Flight and Speed (outside of an Array) why couldn't his Move actions freely mix both types of movement?

Fists of Dorn
Hireling
Hireling
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:51 am

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Fists of Dorn » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:39 pm

HappyDaze wrote:Is there really any good reason why you can't mix and match so long as your total movement is less than the slower of your two movement rates? If a character can has both Flight and Speed (outside of an Array) why couldn't his Move actions freely mix both types of movement?



GM discretion is about it.

Movement effects, generally, require a Free Action to activate the effect. Once the effect is active, the character can use a move action to actually move up to the distance allowed by the movement effect's rank.

Once an effect is activated or deactivated with a Free Action, it remains so until your next turn. So a character with two movement effects (not arrayed) could activate each effect at the beginning of his turn, and if the GM allowed, he could travel using a mixture of the two types. The proposed situation of flying to just outside of a foe's radar range, then diving into the sea and proceeding to shore via swimming before again using flight to get inland would seem reasonable. So long as the total distance traveled is no greater than that of the slower movement effect I would not see any gameplay issue (I might advise that the player adjust his character's movement ranks to account for wanting to use stealth).

The same could be said of a character with both multiple movement effects in a dynamic array, removing the limitation of the basic array structure being allowed to switch between powers once per turn as a free action.


Another thing to consider is that the basic movement effects require a free action to activate and the movement distance provided by the effect may be used as a move action, but the Athletics skill (for those characters using their Speed rank to determine their swimming speed) requires a Move Action to use.
It shouldn't be much of a sticking point for most GMs (I don't see fluid use of a character's movement abilities to be problematic) who can treat it in the same manner as Flight, Speed, & Swimming.



-Fists.

User avatar
HappyDaze
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2731
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby HappyDaze » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:52 am

Fists of Dorn wrote:Another thing to consider is that the basic movement effects require a free action to activate and the movement distance provided by the effect may be used as a move action, but the Athletics skill (for those characters using their Speed rank to determine their swimming speed) requires a Move Action to use.
It shouldn't be much of a sticking point for most GMs (I don't see fluid use of a character's movement abilities to be problematic) who can treat it in the same manner as Flight, Speed, & Swimming.



-Fists.
I'm not sure how Athletics requiring a Move Action is a problem since by taking the action it allows the movement. I don't think that it requires a Move Action for Athletics (swimming) and then a second Move Action to actually move (swimming). The only point to the Athletics description is that failure on the check prevents movement. For a paragon like Superman, failure on the check is not too likely.

Luke Styer
Bystander
Bystander
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:55 am

Re: Superman's Flight Array query?

Postby Luke Styer » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:40 pm

Super Flight Array
Flight: Array (30 points)
• Flight 15 (64,000 MPH) • 30 points
• Quickness 7, Stacks with Super-Speed; Speed 15 (64,000
MPH) • 1 point
• Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) • 1 point

Wait, shouldn't that array add up to 32 points, not 30?


Return to “DC Adventures”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest