Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

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Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:35 am

The Cost for an insubstantial character to be totally insubstantial to all attacks is 25 points (which depending on the game can be a major outlay of points). However the cost for the Extra, Affects Insubstantial is only a flat 2 points to bring the entire power to bear on an insubstantial character.

That seems to be out of proportion to me. It's starting to be an issue in our campaigns and I would like to see if anyone else is having a similar problem.

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Re: Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby Fists of Dorn » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:10 pm

Insubstantial has 4 ranks at 5 points per rank, equalling 20 points. Is there something that I am missing for another five points?

Additionally at four ranks you are immune to physical and energy damage, save for the 'reasonably common effect or one descriptor' that you select when taking the Insubstantial effect as still being able to effect you.

Affects Insubstantial is a flat modifier because it is generally assumed that battling insubstantial foes is going to be pretty uncommon during the campaign. Should your campaign have a higher-than-average number of insubstantial foes to deal with, the cost of the extra should be adjusted accordingly, perhaps becoming a +1/rank extra.


Also, the GM should really be scrutinizing the ability of effects to qualify for the Affects Insubstantial extra.

Generally speaking I don't allow effects to have two ranks of this extra unless it is supposed to be specifically for targeting spirits and the like.



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Re: Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:20 pm

Sorry, the 25 was a typographical error. I still think it's a little cheap to be able to cancel the entire power effect.

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Re: Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:25 pm

To be honest, I think that Affects Insubstantial, as a general rule, should probably be dependent on descriptor. A universal "able to hit all insubstantial things" power just doesn't seem to make sense in most cases. A weapon designed to target ghosts, or to strike out-of-phase people, or to wound memories, that works in my mind.

Frankly, I think the reason it was made so cheap is basically so that it's very feasible to Power Stunt or use a Hero Point to gain the feat when one comes up against such a power.

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Re: Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby ursinethemadbear » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:43 pm

Insubstantial is close to a game breaker anyway. If it was harder to get Affects Insubstantial, I would have issues with it.
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Re: Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby ronyon » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:33 pm

Insubstantial is like being immune to most attacks,and that is cheap at 20 points.
Even the limitations on your own actions are cheap to overcome.
I agree that it is up to the player/gm storytelling team to explain why a given power can affect ghosts, gaseous beings and phasing mutants.
I love the idea that each application of this extra should come with an attached descriptor.

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Re: Cost of Affects insubstantial seems to be too low

Postby Foreshadow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:12 pm

One solution is NOT to design insubstantial characters like I saw from Freedom City. Not all of them but most of them had +0 to low saves for toughness so that if you did effect them it sucked for them. Just allow the affects insubstantial and then build some type of protection into them so they still have some defense. Otherwise you go from immune to a damage 15 attack suddenly vs a +0 toughness and that too is a bit much.


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