LOSH in the DC Universe book

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BCDX97
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LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby BCDX97 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:56 pm

I see from the errata that Blok, Earth-Man, Gates and Quislet are in this book. Can anybody else with the PDF let me know of the other Legion members that made the cut? I was hoping for Tellus and Night Girl last time.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Mr Mole » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:23 pm

Let's see... Blok, Earth-Man, Gates, Quislet, Tellus, plus an assortment of "generic" write-ups like Science Police Officer and Durlan Spy and such... Looks like Night Girl didn't make the cut.

So it looks like no Atmos (Marak Russen), Chameleon Girl (Yera Allon), Chemical King (Condo Arlick), Ferro Lad (Andrew Nolan), Invisible Kid (Lyle Norg), Invisible Kid (Jacques Foccart), Kid Psycho (Gnill Opril), Lightning Lass/Light Lass (Ayla Ranzz), Matter-Eater Lad (Tenzil Kem), Night Girl (Lydda Jath), White Witch/Black Witch (Mysa Nal) or Xs (Jenni Ognats)... The bulk of those being listed as "former members" in the books... And assuming I didn't overlook anyone (which I likely did).

All but Chameleon Girl, Kid Psycho and Xs have write-ups in Mayfair's old 2995: The Legion of Super-Heroes Sourcebook that would probably be fairly easy to adapt to DCA... And with write-ups for Chameleon Boy and the generic Durlan Spy, I can't imagine Chameleon Girl should pose much of a challenge. I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone had already done so and posted them in the Roll Call forum... And if not already, probably soon, 'cause others will have noticed their absence and will want to fill in the blanks. Other people's OCD can be useful. :mrgreen:

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby BCDX97 » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:20 pm

Awesome, thanks for the response!

Sad that Matter Eater Lad, Lightning Lass, neither Invisible Kid, the Black/White Witch, and the late great Ferro Lad didn't make it, but that jerk bag Earth-Man did.

I think the only guy you missed is Magnetic Kid, Cosmic Boy's brother. And the newest Legion members - Comet Queen, Chemical Kid, Glorith II, Dragonwing, and Harmonia - didn't make it, but they are so recent I wasn't expecting or hoping for any of them.

That 2995 sourcebook is pretty cool. I first fell in love with the Legion when I got the first DC Heroes Legion sourcebook. I hadn't read any of the comics but I thought they seemed so cool - been a fan ever since.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Bladewind » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:16 am

Thunder ! They didn't include Thunder ! (Mind you, she's essentially a paragon, but still !)

Seriously, aren't most Legionnaires (and I have always loved the LSH) easily represented by the archetypes from the Hero Handbook? (Just like many X-Men for that matter.) The LSH for the most part had one power...

I loves me some legion and was quite pleased by the line up presented.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Mr Mole » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:22 pm

Bladewind wrote:Thunder ! They didn't include Thunder ! (Mind you, she's essentially a paragon, but still !)

Thunder's write-up should be nearly identical to Captain Marvel's PL 15... Or use Mary Marvel's slightly less powerful PL 14 build if you don't feel comfortable turning Billy Batson into a girl.

Bladewind wrote:Seriously, aren't most Legionnaires (and I have always loved the LSH) easily represented by the archetypes from the Hero Handbook? (Just like many X-Men for that matter.) The LSH for the most part had one power...

I would lean toward "no" as my answer to that one. Certainly, most Legionnaires are PL 10 and have one power set, but I don't see that the archetypes presented in the Heroes Handbook tend to fit individual Legionnaires well at all, with maybe a couple exceptions...

As always, YMMV.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Goldar » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:09 pm

BCDX97 wrote: I was hoping for Tellus and Night Girl last time.


You summed up my sentiments exactly BCDX97!

Thanks, Mr Mole, for listing those LSH members who did make the cut. I was waiting with anticipation for Tellus and Night Girl, but I also wanted White Witch/Black Witch, XS and Titania. Dang! :(

On the bright side, I think a few other characters I wanted did make the cut, like Thunderbolt, Liberty Belle, Maxima, Monguls and Lady Quark. :)

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Bladewind » Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:32 pm

Mr Mole wrote:Thunder's write-up should be nearly identical to Captain Marvel's PL 15... Or use Mary Marvel's slightly less powerful PL 14 build if you don't feel comfortable turning Billy Batson into a girl.


You're talking to the guy who has a Blak Adam "Rule 63" character call Sekhmet. But, yeah. I agree there.

Mr Mole wrote:
Bladewind wrote:Seriously, aren't most Legionnaires (and I have always loved the LSH) easily represented by the archetypes from the Hero Handbook? (Just like many X-Men for that matter.) The LSH for the most part had one power...

I would lean toward "no" as my answer to that one. Certainly, most Legionnaires are PL 10 and have one power set, but I don't see that the archetypes presented in the Heroes Handbook tend to fit individual Legionnaires well at all, with maybe a couple exceptions...


True enough on that score.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby datalore » Wed May 01, 2013 11:39 am

Would have loved to see the Legion of Super-Villains (Lightning Lord, Ol-Vir, Chameleon Chief, Sun Emporer, Spider-Girl, Ron-Karr, Nemesis Kid, Tyr, and even subsets of the LSV...like the League of Super-Assassins and the Legion of Super-Rejects!).

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby BCDX97 » Wed May 01, 2013 9:42 pm

Yes, the LSV would have been great! The Legion needs more guys to fight - the whole Legion vs the Fatal Five just ain't fair, even if those guys are very bad ass.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby saint_matthew » Thu May 02, 2013 12:12 am

Mr Mole wrote:Let's see... Blok, Earth-Man, Gates, Quislet, Tellus, plus an assortment of "generic" write-ups like Science Police Officer and Durlan Spy and such... Looks like Night Girl didn't make the cut.


An this is exactly why no Legion fan was ever going to be happy with the legion stuff in the book... The fact is that the Legion has been around for so long & there have been that many books you could literally have had a Legion book as a seperate 5th licensed book & still only have covered about 40% of the characters and events. After all the Legion was essentially an entire universe all on its own, all told in a limited amount of titles.

Bladewind wrote:Thunder ! They didn't include Thunder ! (Mind you, she's essentially a paragon, but still !)


An thats what i was talking about... Legion has always been full of those kinds of characters (much loved by a few individual, C listers) & each version of the Legion has generated these characters. An just as an FYI, i thought Thunder had a lot of potential as well.

Good news is, that you have the DCA HH, so its not like we can't build our own version.
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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Bladewind » Thu May 02, 2013 3:59 am

saint_matthew wrote:
An thats what i was talking about... Legion has always been full of those kinds of characters (much loved by a few individual, C listers) & each version of the Legion has generated these characters. An just as an FYI, i thought Thunder had a lot of potential as well.

Good news is, that you have the DCA HH, so its not like we can't build our own version.


I was mostly kidding... but you're completely right. It's easy enough to build her.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby kenseido » Thu May 02, 2013 5:10 am

Legion with it's own sourcebook? Mayfair put out three, prior to the reboot (or threeboot). Two for the early Legion (Pre-crisis) and one after the 5 year gap (Post-crisis, and apparently the only Legion that doesn't exist somewhere).

Granted, they were also different editions.
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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby greycrusader » Thu May 02, 2013 6:58 pm

A few guidelines I would use if I were writing up a some of the "missing" legionnaires:

Night Girl (all right, so she's a sub) is immensely strong-she was able to one-punch Titania (Legion of Super-Assassins)who is stronger than Ultra Boy, and who was durable enough to take blows from Jo Nah when he was using his energies for ultra-strength (rank 17); I would assign Night Girl a Str 18, along with a Toughness 12, though only in darkness or deep shadow, along with the Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, and Power Attack advantages (she is a skilled pugilist), and Favored Environment (Darkness). She also has Darkness Vision, of course. Night Girl would have only a modest Fgh attribute, because the Subs just don't see that much action, so her unarmed attack is only +5 (+7 in darkness due to Favored Environment, which doesn't affect PL), giving her a PL of 11. Her enhanced Str and Sta only activate in the absence of light, and she has no Impervious Protection.

Invisible Kid I has genius-level Intellect (6-8?) and Concealment to normal sight; Invisible Kid II has Invisibility /Concealment to all visual senses, and is better at stealth than Lyle Norg, who was more of a tactician. Both were very much skill-based characters, with Lyle having lots of ranks in Science and the Inventor trait, while Jacques was better at Interaction-based skills, along with having some martial arts training (savate), though at a modest level.

Ferro Lad is pretty easily represented by slightly modifying the Powerhouse archetype-in his "living iron" form he possessed Life Support, Immunity to Electrical and Heat attacks (1/2 damage), and was likely just a bit below Ultra Boy in physical strength. He had considerable mental defenses (Saturn Girl could not read his mind), so likely Enhanced Will save only against mental attacks/scans. He wasn't completely Immune, because his brother (who had identical abilities) succumbed to a Mental Transform from Saturn Queen.

He was my favorite Legionnaire, btw.

Mysa the White Witch/Black Witch was a very accomplished sorceress, but had to prepare her spells in advance, so a Variable would be appropriate, but the effects could only change out of combat; she used a broad range of spells, but reasonable limitations would be inferred from what the White Witch never seemed to do in the stories-read or control minds, give herself super-strength, speed, or invulnerability, or imbue others with powers.

In game terms, Chemical King would have an array with lots of specialized slots-Ranged Damage against non-living materials subject to corrosion, rust, or rot, an instant unconsciousness effect (Transform), a Drain/Weaken against Str and Agl (Condo Arlik could interrupt biochemical reactions), Immunity to Poison and Radiation (useable on others), Healing, Transmutation (with very limited affects), and likely a couple more. He probably used Hero Points to come up with other AEs, including the Absorb Radiation stunt that led to his death.

That's all I got.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Foreshadow » Thu May 02, 2013 10:08 pm

Greycrusader, if you were to do Wonder Woman what would you have set her Agility to? A 10 or some other number. Is no one more agility in DCU than Wonder Woman. The way I've seen her portrayed in all media doesn't reflect such a score, iconically she seems agile, and perhaps superhuman but 10? Fine, but no one outclasses her? I've even seen some attempt to slap a 10 Agility on Spider-Man and each time I see Spidey in Action, it is way more agile than the Wonder Woman I see portrayed. I can't see her nimbly and gracefully leaping through falling debris like Spidey, but rather more like Superman, simply flying through with rapid speed. She is agile, but clearly not on par with Spidey, hence those who gave him a 10 are off.

Still, no one warrents an agility higher than 10 in DC Universe?

Harley Quinn has an Intellect of 6. She is portrayed as a ditzy blonde. Sure she might have been a doctor and thus have skill ranks but she doesn't seem iconically portrayed as a brilliant person, like say Oracle is. From the iconic take she seems more appropriate to have 3 or 4, maybe a 5 if you stretched it, but really, 4 seems more than enough and clearly a case where lower ability and more skill ranks in specific areas is a better approach.

I get the book says 'not what you expect' but that seems like a cop out in some cases to hide behind, Sure if its close, but when its clearly off it seems, well, off sort of like when Brainaic had a 13 Intellect and was raised a bit to 15.

So if you did Harley and Wonder Woman what would you give? Please explain in the form of a little blurp like you did with those other characters. I like how you characterize.

any other little tweaks you might have made? If you list them great, but if you can give a little reasoning behind it go for it.

I get that its your 'opinion', but then like in the case of Harley who I see portrayed as a ditzy girl, saying she is a smarter as Peter Parker takes a bit of explaining....what in the wide world of comics gives such a basis for that type of number.

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Re: LOSH in the DC Universe book

Postby Stigger » Fri May 03, 2013 7:34 am

Funny, I always did get the impression that Harley Quinn was incredibly intelligent, enough to come closer to beating the Bat than Mr. J ever did. Her issue was that she was crazy, not stupid. As to Wonder Woman being that agile, what part of deflecting bullets doesn't qualify for that? She just uses her agility in different ways than Spidey does.

But yeah,getting back to the Legion, I'm in favor of it... though I do wish they'd just make up their mind about it and stick to some version or other.


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