DC Adventures: Universe is here!

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Foreshadow » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:47 am

Baron, PL 15

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Run Marvel, Run!!!! :mrgreen:

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby BARON » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:22 am

Dude. I spent a lot of money on that game; I was proud to support it. They got like, what? A core book and one event book? Some support PDFs online? Then they just went "screw you" to everyone who went in to pre-order their 2nd event book. At least it lasted longer than the MURG system.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Foreshadow » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:12 am

I agree with you about not investing and feeling burned. That is why I suggest that a limited run (ie. four sourcebooks) approach is better and more realistic than some overly ambitious program like MWP attempted. I feel like Willy Wonka, saying I told you so.

Yet, I like the game sourcebooks I have, and like prior official games (Marvel SAGA, Classic Marvel, MURPG) they are useful. Same goes with prior iterations of DC heroes games. I'm guessing most of you feel that way (i.e. your glad you have them or access to them, but sad the game died)

That is why a suggestion of Green Ronin doing a limited run would work. It is not too ambitious, one of the books is simply the core game, and provides a library of characters with a guide book to the universe. The fans who are true gamers can then establish and use whatever game setting variation they wish, and we know people want to utilize marvel elements in their games. Meaning, in capitalism there is true Demand and want for it, and doubly so for a convertible system in which one can enter either DC or Marvel. It is THE holy grail and one day, at some point it will happen, much like we saw in the heroclix system. DC and Marvel occasionally do these crossovers, but generally like keeping their character identities separate and competitive. This approach of separate but accessibly equal allows for both. They are NOT the same game, and you can actually track the competition.

My guess if they did it, even someone like yourself who harbors resentment might breakdown one day and buy a copy (especially if you like what you see).

With a new system, like the MURPG or the MWP version you had to invest in a mechanic which is self-contained and mostly new for most people. What it appears to me is they are attempting to not be a true hard core rpg, and appeal to non-gamers using mechanics that are less crunch, more story driven, yet when we analyze the issues there are real and substantial reasons why 'true gamers' don't heavily and enmasse back it.

There is a reason why Mutants and Masterminds appeals to more gamers and wins awards. I actually do like the language of Marvel SAGA, MURPG and games that attempt to say 'panel' instead of round, or page instead of turn or issue instead of game night. It really does feel more like a comic book. I'm sure there are a few supers rpg's that attempt that approach. In fact, if we do see a Mutants and Masterminds 4e and if it seeks to differ itself from the original D20 it evolved from, then yes I would like to see MnM adopt using language like panel, page, and issue than round, turn, game session, and instead of GM, call him the Editor or Writer or some such. I'm sure many of you agree with that point, other than those who like D20 so much they disliked MnM trying to evolve away from it. Yet, one key reason MnM does so well is it isn't truly D20, but only loosely based, thus I would think that most people would ultimately accept the subtle change in language if Green Ronin's lead designer changed such a fundamental element of the game.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Foreshadow » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:14 am

Will you guys get your pre-order money back for the second book. I assume your money will be refunded.

Also if the book was created, don't be surprised that at some point it sees a 'free' pdf release ''unofficially" much like the MURPG spider-man guide. Not doing so would just be a big waste.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Mr Mole » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:37 am

Foreshadow wrote:Will you guys get your pre-order money back for the second book. I assume your money will be refunded.

Also if the book was created, don't be surprised that at some point it sees a 'free' pdf release ''unofficially" much like the MURPG spider-man guide. Not doing so would just be a big waste.

MWP is offering a full refund or 150% of purchase price is store credit.

The PDF was already released some time ago. It's just the print copy that's lost in limbo.

The pertinent portion from http://www.margaretweis.com/creative-directions/blogger/listings/christi is as follows:

"And in Marvel news… the economics of licensing a tie-in product is always something we have to weigh carefully. We brokered an admittedly ambitious license with Marvel. Our first event, CIVIL WAR, was successful and well received, but it didn’t garner the level of sales necessary to sustain the rest of the line. We’ve learned from this and are taking a very different approach with the other licensed properties we’re bringing out to you in the next three years. We believe we created a great game. Those of you that have supported us have been terrific, and we appreciate you. But, unfortunately, we will not be bringing any new product out under the Marvel line. We know this affects our customers. Those that have pre-ordered Annihilation will receive a full refund or a credit worth 150% of their Annihilation order to use on existing or future product."

Really, MWP is being as fair as they can possibly be with their customers.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby JonL » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:38 am

RobertReaper wrote:Though to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the good people at GR hasn't already jumped on this. I could see private meeting with the whole, see how successful we have been with DC, and everything.

That is assuming that DCA was successful. I own all the books and love each and every one of them, but who knows how many people out in the RP and Comic world actually picked it up outside of those of us that show up on the forums. For all we know GR only finished DCA: Universe cause they had a deal to do so and in fact it didn't really show much profit. I'm hoping that this statement is inaccurate and that the books were loved all over this and many other nations, but who knows.

If the book is as successful as it should be, CAUSE THESE BOOKS ARE AMAZING!!!, than Marvel would be stupid not to jump on the band wagon. Though they may be skittish after just losing their system.


Very glad you like the books.

As for the Marvel license. We're not pursuing it at the moment, but that doesn't mean we might not at some point in the future.

The big issue is what Marvel expects to get from an RPG license. Their various characters and movies have been very successful and they may ask for far more money from us than we're willing or able to pay them. There's a big difference in the amount of time it takes them to look at the latest action figure or HeroClix set or coloring book of a licensed Marvel character and the amount of time it takes them to read through and approve books like the ones we produced for DC Adventures. A very big difference. And all the time they spend reading our books is time they can't spend approving something simpler that likely makes them more money, like say, Squinkies.

Would we like to do a Marvel game? Yes, absolutely. Steve, Hal, Chris, Jack, and I are big comics fans, and it would be a blast! And I'm sure I'd have no problem finding writers for it.

Can we do a Marvel game using the M&M system and therefore the same as the DC Adventures game? Yes, absolutely. DC and Marvel don't care about their characters sharing the same game system. Look at HeroClix. That game's been going for 10 years and they're happy to extend the license -- and they know characters from both universes appear in a game using the same system.

It's really just a matter of money and expectations, which I'm sure is the reason the MHR game was suddenly stopped. I have no insider knowledge, but I know how these things work and this sounds to me like Marvel needed/wanted more money out of a renewed license than MWP was able to realistically afford. I'm sure it wasn't MWP's desire to stop the line, stop selling the PDFs, and stop producing books, instead, I'm sure Marvel forced their hand for whatever reason (money).

Maybe someday we'll see a Marvel M&M game, but not anytime soon.
Best regards,

Jon Leitheusser
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DC Adventures Line Developer
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby HustlerOne » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:54 am

Yeah, I really don't expect Marvel Adventures for M&M anytime soon. It would probably take years (and lots of money) to
accomplish such a feat. Still, you never know. Someone at Marvel might be a fan of Mutants and Masterminds.

DC adventures is such a fantastic set of books that I can see Marvel with four books as well. It's breathtaking how many
DC characters Green Ronin were able to write up with a limited amount of books. DC adventures feels almost complete other
than a few minor quibbles. DC versus Marvel using the Mutants and Masterminds would be a dream come true! :mrgreen:

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Mr Mole » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:57 am

JonL wrote:Maybe someday we'll see a Marvel M&M game, but not anytime soon.

Until that day, we have a lot of the same people doing pretty much the same thing they'd be doing for an official product in the Roll Call forum... With everything except Marvel's logo on the cover. :mrgreen:

In hindsight, I think I'm happier to have the DC books than I would be with Marvel books, although I wouldn't've thought that going into it. I can convert Mr Kenson's old Marvel-Phile stuff to M&M with relative ease, if I really want Marvel M&M. The DC stuff is more of a breath of fresh air for me.
Last edited by Mr Mole on Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby JonL » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:03 pm

Mr Mole wrote:
JonL wrote:Maybe someday we'll see a Marvel M&M game, but not anytime soon.

Until that day, we have a lot of the same people doing pretty much the same thing they'd be doing for an official product in the Roll Call forum... With everything except Marvel's logo on the cover. :mrgreen:


That's very true. And there are some GREAT write-ups in the Roll Call forum.
Best regards,

Jon Leitheusser
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Foreshadow » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:27 pm

I get it, thank you for the response John. Well here's to hoping.

As for the ambitious project WMP attempting. Honestly, they put their eggs into the Civil War story line? I know for a fact Secret Wars was by far a more popular and long lasting story line, perhaps not as encompassing for the whole MU earth.

In other words, did Civil War do well in real comics, comic sales, etc.? You tell me, cuz I do not know. I do remember many liking it but some nay sayers. What was the official verdict? Did other mega-summer events do better. Did people ultimately count the days till the Civil War was over and they could get back to normal. Did fans react negatively to the changes the Civil War brought?

I personally didn't read the civil war stuff enmasse. I did read the gist of it, and remember certain key things. It just seems that what supers gamers want is access to the characters, the marvel setting, and AFTERWARD, access to specific story lines such as Annihiation and Civil War.

Put another way in DCA terms someone mentioned what could be put out for DCA if more products were to be put out and mentioned story adventures. That is the main reason I think the Marvel game didn't succeed. They had it backwards. They should have done a core book, a library of characters AND THEN put something like specific story-centered books which are self contained.

Meaning, if they'd done it like DCA was done, and the license was continuous, then a 5th sourcebook would be something like Infinite Crisis or some such past DC super-story line that involves lots of characters. If DCA would have started as an Infinite Crisis sourcebook after the core book was put out, then I don't think DCA would have done so well. That is a bad decision. Instead a character folio was done, and that is most likely what Marvel fans want too. They want a core book with some rules and how to make characters (including their own and not as some afterthought system), then material involving the setting that comes later, not the other way around.

In fact, if I were to target the chief reason MURPG and this new marvel game died, other than reasons like I just stated above, is the fact I hear people didn't like the character generation system so much. Sure it works, and it was good, but not necessarily great. That might have something to do with why people didn't flock to it, even if it had the name Marvel on it. Just a guess.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Quistar » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:06 pm

Great job on the final book, especially given the space limitations and the size and scope of 80+ years of DCU publishing. While I regret not seeing stats for the O'Dare family of uber-cops from Starman and Shade fame, I was tickled pink at the extended writeup of Opal City. Next time I start a DCA campaign, that will be my go-to city for a home base.

- Andrew <:-(}

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby JonL » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:14 pm

Quistar wrote:Great job on the final book, especially given the space limitations and the size and scope of 80+ years of DCU publishing. While I regret not seeing stats for the O'Dare family of uber-cops from Starman and Shade fame, I was tickled pink at the extended writeup of Opal City. Next time I start a DCA campaign, that will be my go-to city for a home base.

- Andrew <:-(}


Seth wrote the Opal City section and he (and I) are huge Jack Knight/Starman fans, sothat explains the extended writeup!
Best regards,

Jon Leitheusser
M&M Line Developer
DC Adventures Line Developer
That's all I got.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Quistar » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:52 pm

JonL wrote:
Quistar wrote:Great job on the final book, especially given the space limitations and the size and scope of 80+ years of DCU publishing. While I regret not seeing stats for the O'Dare family of uber-cops from Starman and Shade fame, I was tickled pink at the extended writeup of Opal City. Next time I start a DCA campaign, that will be my go-to city for a home base.

- Andrew <:-(}


Seth wrote the Opal City section and he (and I) are huge Jack Knight/Starman fans, sothat explains the extended writeup!


8)

- Andrew <:-(}

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby Voltron64 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:13 pm

I'm a little disappointed there aren't any plot hooks in the book. :(
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe is here!

Postby yellowmartian » Sat May 11, 2013 8:09 am

Is the reason why Yellow Martians were included in the Universe book because my ATT name is Yellow Martian and I am a Mars species enthusiast? I already told all my friends that I influenced you guys enough to include them in this book. :D


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