DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby JetstreamGW » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:02 pm

Mr_Raven wrote:This is book has precisely outlined why I have not looked at any of the DC work, and only used the ruleset...

It is out of date by an entire reboot of a universe.


DC Adventures came out before the New 52 did. Also, "Iconic" doesn't refer to "what's in the comics right now." It refers to the most recognizable forms of those characters, those forms that exist in the public (for what it's worth in a major niche hobby) consciousness.

Come to think of it, DCA came out before the New 52 was even ANNOUNCED.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby Mr_Raven » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:58 pm

JonL wrote:
We covered the important things that have happened in continuity in order to show as complete a picture as possible, but for the characters we took an approach that would allow anyone to look at any of the characters and understand who and what they're looking at.
.



have any of these events occurred in the DCU ? at this point in time , what continuity has DC got ?

Zero hour hasnt happned , invasion hasnt happned , so therefore this product inaccuratly portrays the DC universe.

PRE reboot , these events would have made sense, but to me if you took the character now , the ones that DC are producing , there inaccurate and misleading....

Earth-Two_Kenn wrote:Mr. Raven,

Check the copyright date on the inside of the Heroes' Handbook. 2010. The New 52 "direction" didn't exist in 2010. The project was started with the actual, long-established, DC Universe in mind.

The New 52 didn't exist at DC until late spring of 2011, and it wasn't inflicted on the rest of humanity until that autumn. It wouldn't be practical to try to do a series of game books based on variations of properties that are being continually redesigned as the game books are being worked on.


the heroes handbook was still in design in may 2011 , not yet released

http://mutantsandmasterminds.com/dc_adventures/2011/05/


I am not saying it wasnt practical to design various iterations, I just feel both GR and DC knew of the changes to characters , and to be truer to the customer , they should have designed the books around what is being produced now.

I admit , my point about the movieverse versions was out of kilter with what I said before, I apologise.
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby JonL » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:08 pm

We didn't know about the reboot until you did. That's why DC wanted us to take an iconic approach. Also, since they only had plans and no books actually finished and on the market, there was no way for them to tell us how things would change in the New 52. Hell, even now there are inconsistencies as new books are released. We presented the information we had available in a format we thought worked best for long-time fans and RPG fans.

Again, sorry it's not your cup of tea. Too bad you can't just use the character statblocks and ignore the information you don't agree with.
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby JetstreamGW » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:27 pm

Mr_Raven wrote:the heroes handbook was still in design in may 2011 , not yet released

http://mutantsandmasterminds.com/dc_adventures/2011/05/


I am not saying it wasnt practical to design various iterations, I just feel both GR and DC knew of the changes to characters , and to be truer to the customer , they should have designed the books around what is being produced now.

I admit , my point about the movieverse versions was out of kilter with what I said before, I apologise.


http://www.amazon.com/Adventures-RPG-He ... 1934547379

Publication Date, August 31, 2010. The book I have in my HANDS lists a copyright date of 2010.

I got this for Christmas 2010.

New 52 was announced in 2011 and released in September of 2011. Green Ronin had NO idea. No one did. I don't even believe DC knew about it more than a month before we did.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby Mr_Raven » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:40 pm

JonL wrote:We didn't know about the reboot until you did. That's why DC wanted us to take an iconic approach. Also, since they only had plans and no books actually finished and on the market, there was no way for them to tell us how things would change in the New 52. Hell, even now there are inconsistencies as new books are released. We presented the information we had available in a format we thought worked best for long-time fans and RPG fans.

Again, sorry it's not your cup of tea. Too bad you can't just use the character statblocks and ignore the information you don't agree with.



I do , I understand your pov , I just feel its a missed chance for you to pull in new players , and that DC cut you off at the knees for foisting this change on you.
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby kenseido » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:10 pm

And I feel that by going the route GR did, they are appealing to a larger audience then the comic fans who like the New 52.
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby Mr Mole » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:19 pm

kenseido wrote:And I feel that by going the route GR did, they are appealing to a larger audience then the comic fans who like the New 52.

I can't say for certain which approach would've appealed to more people. As for me, I very much doubt I would've given the products a chance if they'd been based on the New 52. I'd've been okay if the new continuity had a chapter in the Universe book, but that'd be about it. Going with the approach GR and DC did, I bought all four books (in PDF) and I'm very happy with my purchases.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby RobertReaper » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:03 pm

Stigger wrote:Guess there's just no pleasing some folks... for whatever it's worth I can't even use any other systems anymore for fear of my brain exploding in frustration. I absolutely adore DCA/M&M3e, including the way everything was presented and arranged.


I love that I can take M&M characters and powers and just adjust them a little to use them in DC.
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As for Zero Hour, Blackest Night, etc, the entries are less than a page each and are generally just a brief description of each. You want Flashpoint and The New 52, just follow the links.
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby BCDX97 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:58 pm

How many characters in the New 52 have different powers than they did pre-New 52? I've read a ton of New 52 books and I can't really think of any.

Sure, there are a few new characters here and there, but these books are fantastic and really do capture the "iconic" version of these characters.

I don't know if Mr_Raven is pro New 52 or anti New 52 or just wants to complain.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby Mr_Raven » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:04 am

I am very pro pre 52 , I feel dc has cocked up the reboot , with the inclusion of the wildstorm characters , the chance to make some more characters really stand out.
I understand the needs for the reboot, as the stories became more unwieldy and needed to trim down.


Personally I would go back to Baxter series lsh and be done , but progress is progess and we have to live in the present and whatever future is out there!
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby dan2448 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:47 am

Mr_Raven wrote:I just feel both GR and DC knew of the changes to characters, and to be truer to the customer , they should have designed the books around what is being produced now.


I'm not convinced that there's a monolithic "customer" for these books, or a single "truth."

I haven't read comic books actively in maybe 20 years or more. But I have seen the recent "Dark Knight" films, and Bryan Singer's "Superman" movie, and I've watched a few episodes of the "Justice League Unlimited" cartoon. I bought only two issues of the New 52 reboot of "Detective Comics." I've bought no other New 52 comic books and am not familiar with them.

As a "customer" who bought these RPG books, I'm not convinced it would've been "truer" to me to present the brand new, 'New 52' versions of these characters (with which I'm almost totally unfamiliar) as opposed to more timeless, 'iconic' versions. I further suspect that the number of people who are familiar with the Nolan/Bale version of Batman dwarfs those who know of the New 52 version of Batman. In that circumstance, what's the "truth"?

Comic books are such a niche market today. They're no longer available at 7 Eleven or airport newsstands, and only a few comic books are lucky to sell even 100,000 copies per issue. Most people encounter these DC characters through other media like movies or TV. And many adults relate to them primarily through childhood memories of the characters as they existed 10 or 20 or 30 years ago, or more. As a result, I suspect that presenting the most current comic book versions of these characters in an RPG book today might put off as many (or more) potential customers as it would attract.

But it certainly would've been attractive to those customers who do buy the 'New 52' comic books, and may've been more reflective to them of their personal version of the "truth" about them.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:26 am

dan2448 wrote:As a "customer" who bought these RPG books, I'm not convinced it would've been "truer" to me to present the brand new, 'New 52' versions of these characters (with which I'm almost totally unfamiliar) as opposed to more timeless, 'iconic' versions. I further suspect that the number of people who are familiar with the Nolan/Bale version of Batman dwarfs those who know of the New 52 version of Batman. In that circumstance, what's the "truth"?


The "truth" is that as long as DC's legal department gives it the okay, it is the truth for that medium, at that moment.

Mr_Raven wrote:I just feel both GR and DC knew of the changes to characters, and to be truer to the customer , they should have designed the books around what is being produced now.


You feel? That's nice. Your feelings make no sense in this case. Green Ronin is a licensee, not a business partner. DC is a corporation. It wanted GR to make a product it's legal department could approve. If they wanted a reference that would try to keep pace with the stream of changes coming out of the comic producing section, they'd need a wiki.
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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby The Argent Protector » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:58 am

JonL wrote:The message we send is outlined up front in each of the books. The characters presented are supposed to be the iconic versions of those characters. With information that encapsulates the character as a whole, not how they were when they first appeared, mid-way through their existence, or in the current comics. We've been very public about that fact.


I'm 100% on board with the way you guys have handled the DCU. When I read the descriptions and look at the art that was chosen, I feel like you have captured the Iconic feel perfectly. You've done a great job! I just wish Universe wasn't the last book. Sigh.

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby The Argent Protector » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:03 am

I didn't see it in the table of contents. Does anyone know if Apokalips is covered in the Universe book?

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Re: DC Adventures: Universe Preview!

Postby Bladewind » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:21 am

The Argent Protector wrote:I didn't see it in the table of contents. Does anyone know if Apokalips is covered in the Universe book?


There`s a section on the Fourth World covering a decent chunk of Apokiliptian and New Genesis material... The specifics elude me at the moment.


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