Create+Maneuvers

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kenmadragon
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Create+Maneuvers

Postby kenmadragon » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:16 pm

Simple Question really,

Say I have a character who is a light controller at PL 10 with a Create 10 [extras: Moveable] power for 30 PP with the descriptor Hard Light Construct as one of his powers. This character also has the maneuver Power Attack. Basically, the question is that this character wishes to use the Trap usage of the Create power to create a Light Cage, and make sure it is strong enough to trap a rather strong opponent (an enemy paragon). So, the player chooses to use Power Attack with the ranged attack of his Create Object. Now, is it viable to allow this? Can a character use Create Object and utilize maneuvers like Power Attack or All Out Attack in using Create Object?

ronyon
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Re: Create+Maneuvers

Postby ronyon » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:20 pm

I don't
why not you're still basically you doing a trade off. Seems balanced to me.

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saint_matthew
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Re: Create+Maneuvers

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:19 pm

kenmadragon wrote:Simple Question really,

Say I have a character who is a light controller at PL 10 with a Create 10 [extras: Moveable] power for 30 PP with the descriptor Hard Light Construct as one of his powers. This character also has the maneuver Power Attack. Basically, the question is that this character wishes to use the Trap usage of the Create power to create a Light Cage, and make sure it is strong enough to trap a rather strong opponent (an enemy paragon). So, the player chooses to use Power Attack with the ranged attack of his Create Object. Now, is it viable to allow this? Can a character use Create Object and utilize maneuvers like Power Attack or All Out Attack in using Create Object?


I'm going to say no for two reasons & both are due to how the Power Attack rules work. heres what the book says about Power Attack.

POWER ATTACK
The changes to attack and effect are decided before you make your attack check and last until the start of your next turn. This maneuver does not apply to effects requiring no attack check or allowing no resistance check.


Now according to the trapping rules for create

TRAPPING WITH OBJECTS
You can trap a target inside a large enough hollow object (a cage or bubble, for example). This requires both an attack check against the target’s Dodge and a Dodge resistance check against the effect’s rank. A trapped character can break out of the object normally.


You only get an resistance check for the initial attempt to capture, not subsequent rounds: To me this would put this into the "allowing no resistance check" clause of Power Attack. However the rules also state that Power Attacks effect only lasts until the start of your next turn, which would mean the "boost" you are talking baout does not last.

An while the rules for create clearly spell out the ability to reinforce the created structure every round, i would not consider there to be any need for a new resistance check every time (since you would just be reinforcing the structure, not trying to re-trap), which would bring us back to the "allowing no resistance check" clause of power attack.

If you are findning that people are escaping the light-constructs to often, its a sign your either doing something wrong, or yoour build is off.

CREATE
You can create an object with a maximum volume rank equal to your effect rank and Toughness equal to your effect rank. Created objects can be damaged or broken like
ordinary objects. [...] You can repair any damage to a created object at will by using your effect again (essentially “re-creating” the object).

DAMAGING AN OBJECT
Objects (targets lacking a Stamina rank) take damage similar to other targets. Dazed and staggered condition have no effect on inanimate targets, since they do not take actions. Constructs, capable of action, are dazed and staggered normally (see Constructs in the Gadgets & Gear chapter). Inanimate objects are defenseless by definition and therefore subject to finishing attacks (see Finishing Attack in the Action & Adventure chapter). Essentially, you can choose between making your attack on the object as a routine check or, if you make the attack check normally, gaining an automatic critical hit if your attack hits, for a +5 bonus to effect.

If an attacker’s intention is to bend, break or destroy an inanimate object, then two degrees of failure on the Damage resistance check results in a break (such as a hole punched through the object) while three or more degrees of failure means the object is destroyed (shattered, smashed to pieces, etc.).


This means if you have a Create of 10, the toughness save is D20+10, versus a DC25 strike (being the maximum level of damage at PL 10, without trade-offs). If the encaptulated target is using a Finishing Attack the DC moves upto DC30. However since its an object & not a person, the created bubble, has to fail by more then to degrees just for a fist sized hole to appear in the created object... An the bubble needs to fail by three or more degrees of failure to be smashed to pieces.

For all intents and purposes this means the toughness role for the forcefield, versus the paragon, with the paragon making a finishing attack is D20+15 for two degree's of failure, and DC20+20 for the three degree and break out, versus DC 25 (DC 30 if the paragon is also using Improved Power Attack). This means that it takes a straight roll of 15 to stop the paragon from putting his fist through the light-field (with imp power attack & a finishing attack) & a roll of 10 to stop him from smashing it completely (something you can stop atleast once if you have a hero point for a re-roll if worst comes to worst).

If the paragon does not have improved power attack, then it takes a straight roll of 10 to stop the paragon from putting his fist through the light-field (with a finishing attack) & a roll of 5 to stop him from smashing it completely.

An of course, you can always reinforce the field on your round, so the paragon finds himself back at square one, if he succeeds at putting his fist through the field (or in fact any damage to the field).

As you can probably see, its already very heavily slatted towards your Light-Manipulator succeeding, over the Paragon. I feel like adding in Power Attack on your side, would be both playing the system & kind of not needed. An just as a side statement: The game is meant to be a challenge... Trying to build for an insta-win is kind of stopping the game from being challenging, its meant to be pretty fairly balanced system wise.
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ronyon
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Re: Create+Maneuvers

Postby ronyon » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:15 pm

Wow... Well said!


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