Comparing Kryptonians

Join the never-ending battle for truth and justice in the world's greatest super-hero universe, using the world's greatest super-hero roleplaying game! This forum is for discussion of DC ADVENTURES.
User avatar
Mr Mole
Firebrand
Firebrand
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am
Location: Washington (the state, not the district)

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Mr Mole » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:17 am

greycrusader wrote:(Though we can all agree Karate Kid would step all over Lady Shiva, that's just blindingly obvious and the stats in the books are clearly a Time Trapper ploy.)

I'm more than half-tempted to take the bait and run with another "Who's the Top Martial Artist in the History of the DC Universe" versus stat blocks discussion... :roll:

User avatar
Goldar
Disciple
Disciple
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Goldar » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:12 am

Another slight adjustment...this time for non-Kryptonian-but-closely-related Daxamite Mon-El: increase STA from 13 to 14.

User avatar
Talison
Partisan
Partisan
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Talison » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:33 pm

Goldar wrote:Another slight adjustment...this time for non-Kryptonian-but-closely-related Daxamite Mon-El: increase STA from 13 to 14.


Actually, there's a problem with ALL the Legion stats. That is, they don't specifically say which Legion it is. It would seem they are the Earth One classic Legion who are now all mostly adults. But the Iconic version of all of these characters is their teenage version. Mon-El, on the other hand, I think is halfway through his teen appearance and his young adult appearance in the New Krypton arc. And he actually has his New 52 Costume in the art.

User avatar
Earth-Two_Kenn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 504
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:13 pm
Location: Outer Chicagoland, Earth-Two
Contact:

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:33 pm

Well, the teen-aged versions from 1959 or 1968 or whenever are also the adult Legionnaires from the mid-80s when LSH was doing so well it spawned a second book and are also the adult Legionnaires we saw return a few years ago, after both the Zero Hour Legion and the three-boot Legion.

Most iconic is a curious term and it can mean a lot of different things to different people. The good news is, these are stat blocks. The Mon-el in H&V vol. 2 could be the Mon-el from my childhood, or the Mon-el from when DC dropped me as a customer a few years ago, or even Valor/M'onel of the middle Legion. They went for the iconic versions of the powers and abilities, not necessarily the most iconic version of the histories.

And if you want to drop a few stats on the Legionnaires to better represent them as teenagers, please do.
Over eleven hundred DCA/M&M Character builds at http://www.rcuhero.net

User avatar
Goldar
Disciple
Disciple
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Goldar » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:00 pm

I agree with the age-thing with the LSH, although I have always looked at the LSH as late-teeners for the most part, about 18-19 yrs old.

With the stats presented for the LSH, I look at them as between 18-22 yrs of age, so really adults even if some are still in the late teens. I don't think at that age their powers would increase to any great degree, if at all.

The interesting thing with the LSH is I don't ever remember an issue where someone's powers grew. True, there was the changing of powers (such as Lightning Lass to Light Lass or White Witch to Black Witch) or mysterious presentation of powers (Sensor Girl), but no real power-up issues (that I read anyhow). So I don't think that not knowing the exact age of the LSH presented would present any problems, or if the LSH are teens rather than mid-20's adults.

That said, tweeking of stats may be needed and done per personal preferences, as I did for Mon-El and some of the other characters.

User avatar
Mr Mole
Firebrand
Firebrand
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am
Location: Washington (the state, not the district)

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Mr Mole » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:41 pm

Goldar wrote:The interesting thing with the LSH is I don't ever remember an issue where someone's powers grew. True, there was the changing of powers (such as Lightning Lass to Light Lass or White Witch to Black Witch) or mysterious presentation of powers (Sensor Girl), but no real power-up issues (that I read anyhow). So I don't think that not knowing the exact age of the LSH presented would present any problems, or if the LSH are teens rather than mid-20's adults.

I'm not an authority on the Legion's 5+ decades of canon, but that's my impression as well. Sure, certain characters have undergone significant revamps, and there's been some power-creep (like most superheroes). Most seem to be along the lines of Triplicate Girl losing one of her selves and becoming Duo Damsel... Or worse, Lightning Lass becoming Light Lass (making things lighter...? seriously...?)

Really, the LSH does a lot to set the standard for M&M's PL concept. Superboy, Mon-El, Ultra-Boy, and then everyone else... Right down to the Legion of Substitute Heroes...

User avatar
Goldar
Disciple
Disciple
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Goldar » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:59 pm

Mr Mole wrote: I'm not an authority on the Legion's 5+ decades of canon, but that's my impression as well. Sure, certain characters have undergone significant revamps, and there's been some power-creep (like most superheroes).

Really, the LSH does a lot to set the standard for M&M's PL concept. Superboy, Mon-El, Ultra-Boy, and then everyone else... Right down to the Legion of Substitute Heroes...


Indeed, I really like and appreciate the stableness in terms of powers that has more-or-less always been shown with the Legion.

I always thought the Superboy of old (a Pre-Crisis young Kal-El) was on a par with Mon-El STR wise and PL wise, with Mon-EL only being slightly eclipsed by him when he became Superman. But don't know if that is correct or not. What do you think?

Also, I remember Supergirl Pre-Crisis as being listed as 1 stronger than Superboy.

Yeah, the Legion of Substitute Heroes, most especially Night Girl (a long-time personal favorite) has just got to be in this last Universe Book to make it complete......!

Raws
Henchman
Henchman
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Raws » Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:49 pm

If I remember correctly, pre-crisis mon-el was more powerfull than pre-crisis superboy and less powerfull than pre-crisis superman. Something like: Superboy = Teenager, Mon-el young adult, Superman Fully developed Adult...

There are many passages in pre-crisis stories where mon-el is refered as "the most powerfull member of the legion"... Sometimes, if I'm not mistaken, even by superboy himself...

User avatar
Earth-Two_Kenn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 504
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:13 pm
Location: Outer Chicagoland, Earth-Two
Contact:

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:45 am

Not being vulnerable to Kryptonite, and having the anti-lead serum made Mon-el more powerful than Superboy.

But yes, the Mon-el was considered to be stronger, etc. than Superboy as well. Whether or not it meant Daxamites were just naturally more powerful than Kryptonians or if it was because of the age/size difference was one of those fanboy discussions like "can Logan's claws pierce Steve Rogers' shield" that often went unresolved.
Over eleven hundred DCA/M&M Character builds at http://www.rcuhero.net

User avatar
Goldar
Disciple
Disciple
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Goldar » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:04 pm

Thanks for the info, Raws and Kenn.

I have not read many old issues with Mon-El, Superboy and Superman. The ones I did seem to have, as you state Mon-El being mightier than SBoy, but not SMan. I agree that Mon-El's build could possibly play into this, along with him being an older teen (young adult) than Superboy, but I also think maybe it could be his Daxamite heritage.

I was mostly going off memory of the first DC RPG, or possibly the updated version which had both Mon-El and Andromeda with approximate stats, although I believe she had the better ones! Both had something like 23 STR, while PG had a 22STR. I think SB was given a 25, which seemed too high to me since SMan also had a 25 STR.

And if I remember correctly, in the first RPG, SBoy was not at the top level, but something more like 47 STR while Supergirl (who was still around the Pre-Crisis DCU) was given 48 STR with Superman at 50. Don't know about Mon-El in that version.

Granted, that version of Superboy was not Conner, but a young Superman, so that could explain his power levels aprroaching those of Superman. And that's what surprised me so much with Conner's stats---- I thought his STR would have only been like a 10 or 11 at maximum, since he was "only" half-Kryptonian. Conner is listed with the same STR and STA as the current Supergirl, who like him, is a teen, except she is a full Kryptonian, albeit a very waify-one at that.

User avatar
Black Mamba
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 9477
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 6:45 pm

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Black Mamba » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:24 pm

Goldar wrote:And that's what surprised me so much with Conner's stats---- I thought his STR would have only been like a 10 or 11 at maximum, since he was "only" half-Kryptonian. Conner is listed with the same STR and STA as the current Supergirl, who like him, is a teen, except she is a full Kryptonian, albeit a very waify-one at that.

Sometimes being a "mongrel" produces a more powerful result than pure-blood. Example, the mule. :)

Plus being twice as strong in the game is really just the difference of 1 Rank. Superman, with is 23 STR, is twice as strong as Wonder Woman, with her 22. A full-grown Conner might only have a 22 STR - thus being half as strong as Clark.
In this world of armchair bloggers, who've created a generation of critics instead of leaders, I'm actually doing something. Right here. Right now; for the city. For my country" - Oliver Queen, Smallville

User avatar
Goldar
Disciple
Disciple
Posts: 674
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Goldar » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:48 pm

Black Mamba wrote: Plus being twice as strong in the game is really just the difference of 1 Rank. Superman, with is 23 STR, is twice as strong as Wonder Woman, with her 22. A full-grown Conner might only have a 22 STR - thus being half as strong as Clark.


That is quite true, BM! Thought too much about it and forgot the simplest rule!

I can't wait to see all who appear in the Universe Book! Hopefully it will include some other super-strong characters to compare and contrast!

User avatar
Earth-Two_Kenn
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 504
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:13 pm
Location: Outer Chicagoland, Earth-Two
Contact:

Re: Comparing Kryptonians

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:45 am

By the way, since all a cutting edge does is focus the force applied, rather than generate force of their own, no Logan's claws can't penetrate Steve Rogers shield, at least if it's Logan wielding them. The claws won't bend, and assuming Logan isn't a LOT stronger than Steve, they may be just sort of locked there until someone moves, but no penetration will occur.

Now, if Non uses Logan (and his claws) as a weapon, so that the force applied is the strength of a big Kryptonian ("the big one's just as strong as Superman") focused through indestructible bone and claws, then Logan's claws might penetrate Steve's shield. And Logan's skeleton might be fine, but his healing factor will be working overtime putting the muscles and tendons back together.
Over eleven hundred DCA/M&M Character builds at http://www.rcuhero.net


Return to “DC Adventures”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest