Deflect power level limit

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Fists of Dorn
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Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:51 am

Re: Deflect power level limit

Postby Fists of Dorn » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:31 am

Black Mamba wrote:If your argument is that the person who wrote the game is wrong in his example, well, there is not much anyone can do to change your opinion about that. As I said, you are free to handle it however you wish.

Reread my previous posts if you are confused about the basis of my argument.
Mistakes had been made when writing some of the design journals (and other information posted on Green Ronin's website) in the past. Allowing for the possibility of this journal containing a mistake in it would not be unheard of. Steve Kenson has in the 2E official rules forum given conflicting answers before and when queried about these conflicting answers he would think about the question as a whole again and give what he wanted to be a "finalized" answer on the subject.

Black Mamba wrote:As far as PL caps, we should look at example characters meant to be played rather than Archetypes or NPCs:
In every example the characters are capped in Offense and in only 2 examples does a character have a single Defense that is below PL.

Those DC characters are intended to be used for play as written.
The Emerald City characters happen to be nearer to, or as you point out at, their PL caps. However, that doesn't change the fact that anyone using the DCA products who is looking to play an established character would often be under PL cap in a few areas. Nor would it impact my previous argument regarding Aid, Aim, etc. because simply listing further examples of characters able to make use of those bonuses when they are limited by PL changes nothing about the bonuses being limited by PL.

Black Mamba wrote:Note the bolded and underlined portion of the quote.

Of course that does not clear up any Deflect issues mentioned in this thread, but I think it handles the Circumstance Bonus issue nicely. :)

See that is a valid argument regarding Circumstance Bonuses and PL limits because it shows specific intent for the game mechanic by the game designer. On top of that, because this precedes his journal using Batman in an example encounter with the Joker and his henchmen, it removes my earlier concern about Steve Kenson possibly making an error in his article.


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Black Mamba
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Re: Deflect power level limit

Postby Black Mamba » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:31 am

Fists of Dorn wrote:See that is a valid argument regarding Circumstance Bonuses and PL limits because it shows specific intent for the game mechanic by the game designer.

No, it is the same argument. The only difference is that you wanted unequivocal proof. Unfortunately 3E is not 2E, and thus we are not going to get unequivocal proof on anything again - there is no Line Developer answering questions for us every month or two. In the above example I was simply fortunate that I remembered it being said, somewhere, nearly 3 years ago, and was eventually able to find it. That is seldom going to be the case for 3E.

For 3E we often need to look behind the written words for the intent of the rule. It was clear the intent for Circumstance Modifiers was to deal with circumstantial issues which arise during play - that was even the way you admitting to using it. It would be stupid to think that characters could regularly suffer Circumstance Penalties but seldom be able to enjoy Circumstance Bonuses due to PL constraints. In M&M sometimes common sense needs to fill in the blank or vague spots.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned the Circumstance Bonus issue is settled.

As far as Deflect, I also consider it to be a Circumstantial situation: an uncommon circumstance where one player uses a Standard Action to substitute his Defense value in an attempt to try and protect another. As such, I do not believe the intent of the action is to only be able to help those of equal PL who are also suffering some sort of Conditional Defensive Penalty at that time, or who were specifically built to be under PL. Captain America can try and save Bucky and he can try and save Thor. Their respective PLs or Defenses are meaningless because it is a Circumstance issue rather than a PL issue.
In this world of armchair bloggers, who've created a generation of critics instead of leaders, I'm actually doing something. Right here. Right now; for the city. For my country" - Oliver Queen, Smallville

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