Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

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Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby spikevampire » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:13 pm

As topic said, I was wondering whether or not I can attack someone while pinned in a grapple.
Same question should be referred to the Move Objects power as well.

Literally speaking I assume that being defenseless and immobilized doesn't say anything about being able or not to attack and harm the person who's holding you.
This also result in a weird situation where someone telekinetically holds an enemy, and get blasted/shot in the face by the same person who's holding in the next round.

I would like to hear some opinions from you guys... thanks!

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby Arthur Eld » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:52 pm

First of all, there are no 'pins' in 3E. If you fail a grab by 2 degrees, you're bound-which is, as you said, defenseless and immobile, but also impaired. So yeah, you can still attack.

Which makes sense for certain things. A bunch of robo-tentacles grab our gunslinging hero, and he's still able to make a shot to hit their control panel and shut them down (at a -2 penalty, of course).

Its worth noting that escaping from a Grab is a Move Action, so you can say, try to escape and then, if that doens't work, make an attack on the person grabbing you as well that turn.

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby Kaimont » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:06 pm

I don't see why not. A good grab can leave you Impaired, taking a -2 penalty on your attack, but you can still make the attempt. That said, I can also see occasional times when a grab might make you unable to use powers, but then I think it would be a complication.

For example, if someone sneaks up behind Zatanna and puts a hand over her mouth, that's a grab that also triggers her "Power Loss" Complication. Of course, she can still elbow that guy in the gut.

For another example, this time from Marvel Comics, Wolverine fighting Sabretooth. Sabretooth knocks Wolvie to the ground, and pins his arms over his chest. "Sorry Logan, but you're unable to move your arms at the moment, so the claws are a no-go. Take a Hero Point."

But as a general rule, I'd say yes, you can still use an attack while grabbed, grappled, pinned, etc.

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby spikevampire » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:38 pm

Thanks, that's what I thought... it gives more chances to end up a grapple, because it can actually result in a deadly attack in the second round...

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby Laughingcrow » Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:13 am

In addition, there are plenty physical attacks that work fine, like biting or grabbing any exposed flesh...ahem. Also, a Telepath or other character with Mental powers can easily overpower a person with Mind Blasts or Mind Controls - or the illusion that they are grabbing a person bursting into flames hoping they will let go.

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:03 pm

It's worth noting that grappling is, in many ways, a form of Affliction. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of trying to inflict different statuses either as some sort of called shot or as a stunt.

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby Horsenhero » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Too true. I wouldn't object, as a GM, to a character who's won a grapple/grab check, "choking out" an enemy as a stunt.

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:44 am

Arthur Eld wrote:First of all, there are no 'pins' in 3E. If you fail a grab by 2 degrees, you're bound-which is, as you said, defenseless and immobile, but also impaired. So yeah, you can still attack.


Depending on descriptor of course. If your attack requires you to do three jumping jacks, then no. :lol:
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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby ursinethemadbear » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:03 pm

saint_matthew wrote:
Arthur Eld wrote:First of all, there are no 'pins' in 3E. If you fail a grab by 2 degrees, you're bound-which is, as you said, defenseless and immobile, but also impaired. So yeah, you can still attack.


Depending on descriptor of course. If your attack requires you to do three jumping jacks, then no. :lol:


That all depends. Batman might have the skill to put Superman in a grapple, but if Supes wants to do jumping jacks with the Bat hanging off his shoulders, then I think he can manage it.


Until Batman pulls out his kryptonite- studded brass knuckles and his red sunlight spotlight and gets seriously into the fight. But just a grapple is not really going to slow Superman down that much.
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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:03 pm

ursinethemadbear wrote:That all depends. Batman might have the skill to put Superman in a grapple, but if Supes wants to do jumping jacks with the Bat hanging off his shoulders, then I think he can manage it.


Only if Superman suceeds at breaking the grab.

Though grab becomes much less useful when mentally controlled flight is involved. I've actually started to use flight as a way to break grab, otherwise you just have a situation where Batman grabs Superman & Superman just flies straight into the atmosphere, because grab doesn't stop the use of mental abilities & it doesn't anchor you to the ground in any meaningful way.
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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby monele » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:44 am

saint_matthew wrote:I've actually started to use flight as a way to break grab, otherwise you just have a situation where Batman grabs Superman & Superman just flies straight into the atmosphere, because grab doesn't stop the use of mental abilities & it doesn't anchor you to the ground in any meaningful way.


So you consider Flight (descriptor: flying to space) as the mechanical way out of a Grab? I'm a bit confused by your wording (specifically "otherwise" followed by a trick I find rather clever :) )

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:39 pm

monele wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:I've actually started to use flight as a way to break grab, otherwise you just have a situation where Batman grabs Superman & Superman just flies straight into the atmosphere, because grab doesn't stop the use of mental abilities & it doesn't anchor you to the ground in any meaningful way.


So you consider Flight (descriptor: flying to space) as the mechanical way out of a Grab? I'm a bit confused by your wording (specifically "otherwise" followed by a trick I find rather clever :) )


In my game players have the option to use flight as a way to break free of grabs. They don't have to, but it is an option (given the right sort of descriptored flight).
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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby monele » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:47 am

OK, sounds like a nice option. Probably valid for any type of effect or skill as long as the description makes sense too.

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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby JDRook » Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:24 am

saint_matthew wrote:
monele wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:I've actually started to use flight as a way to break grab, otherwise you just have a situation where Batman grabs Superman & Superman just flies straight into the atmosphere, because grab doesn't stop the use of mental abilities & it doesn't anchor you to the ground in any meaningful way.


So you consider Flight (descriptor: flying to space) as the mechanical way out of a Grab? I'm a bit confused by your wording (specifically "otherwise" followed by a trick I find rather clever :) )


In my game players have the option to use flight as a way to break free of grabs. They don't have to, but it is an option (given the right sort of descriptored flight).


I don't agree with Flight "breaking Grab", although I can certainly see certain Flight or other Movement descriptors ignoring the Immobile Condition. The other Conditions affecting Defense would still be in effect (although the Grabber would actually be providing Cover for the Grabbee). If Supes wanted to fly away, he'd still have Bats on him until he shook him off or Bats let go, voluntarily or otherwise.
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Re: Am I able to attack if I've been pinned in grapple?

Postby spikevampire » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:50 pm

same, I think being able to use flight to get out from a grab attack means at least improving your condition to only one degree of failure and then slam attacking the guy who's pinning you somewhere in the wall...

I hardly see batman pinning superman but this is pretty much covered by the mechanics of the game... DC 14 of batman against +15 of superman's strength... Not so much of a chance left here...


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