Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse characters

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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby Stigger » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:09 am

While I can completely understand where you're coming from in terms of static PL stuff, and in large part agree with it, I would suggest tossing out PP at a reduced rate and limiting its use to certain stuff, limited to what actually comes up during play sort of thing. I'm mainly getting at alternate effects as they figure out new ways to use their abilities, skill points towards what they are working on improving in-game, though maybe off-screen, that sort of thing. Obviously that has to be kept sane, but that's what the GM is there for really.

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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby Greyman » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:08 am

Dragonblade wrote:Spider-Man isn't noticeably more powerful now than he was a year ago. He didn't evolve from purse snatchers to one shotting Thanos with his +5 spidey suit and vorpal web shooters. Continually advancing established superheroes just doesn't fit with the genre, IMO.
Spidey changes a lot but the reset button keeps getting pushed.

He's got a well-defined powerset --the proportionate powers of a spider-- that doesn't leave, or need, much room for obvious tweaking. Aside from learning new web:shooting tricks, Most of his advancement has been in terms of character development and relationships.

It's not true of every hero. Some more so than others have had their powers upgraded and broadened over time. Slowly in real time, perhaps, but think of it in comic book time.

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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby Dragonblade » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:23 am

Greyman wrote:
Dragonblade wrote:Spider-Man isn't noticeably more powerful now than he was a year ago. He didn't evolve from purse snatchers to one shotting Thanos with his +5 spidey suit and vorpal web shooters. Continually advancing established superheroes just doesn't fit with the genre, IMO.
Spidey changes a lot but the reset button keeps getting pushed.

He's got a well-defined powerset --the proportionate powers of a spider-- that doesn't leave, or need, much room for obvious tweaking. Aside from learning new web:shooting tricks, Most of his advancement has been in terms of character development and relationships.

It's not true of every hero. Some more so than others have had their powers upgraded and broadened over time. Slowly in real time, perhaps, but think of it in comic book time.


Yeah absolutely. I'm pretty upfront that the game will be focused on story and while some PP will be given out, it won't be a regular thing. As a result, I tend to be pretty flexible during character creation in terms of letting players go over the 150 point limit for PL 10 if they need it, and in letting players tweak and re-assign points later if a certain power isn't working out in a way they expected. I want them to be able to make a PC they'll be satisfied playing for a long time.

I'm even tempted to simply go with PL 10, but allow unlimited points during character creation. I'm scared of what some of my players will do with that, but it might be worth trying out once just to see what happens. :)

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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby starman2 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:32 am

Personally I can't for the life of me think of ONE super hero show based on a comic book FEMALE that was any good EVER! The Catwoman movie sucked, Electra sucked, the Wonder Woman TV series sucked. So I don't see the need.

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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:41 am

starman2 wrote:Personally I can't for the life of me think of ONE super hero show based on a comic book FEMALE that was any good EVER! The Catwoman movie sucked, Electra sucked, the Wonder Woman TV series sucked. So I don't see the need.


That has less to do with the gender of the character & more to do with Superhero shows & movies by and large sucking. Need i point out that yes while Elektra sucked as a movie property so did Daredevil. An yes the Wonder Woman new TV pilot sucked, but so did the Aquaman TV pilot.

Its got nothing to do with gender & everything to do with the lowest common denominator of the American TV viewership & network execs pandering to them; lest the material be beyond them & they switch over to a show about people wrestling gators, when they aren't busy crawling through other peoples trash pretending to look for valuable antiques.

You give TV execs a fully fleshed character concept about something as fancy as superheroes & the first thing they say is "how can we con people with the IQ of mud into watching this. I know we'll dumb it down into something we know stupid people already like."

for every Season 1 of the new adventures of Lois & Clark, there is a "The Cape" or "my super ex-girlfriend." By and large the few properties we consider to be viewable are the super rare exceptions to the general rule of thumb.
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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby Dragonblade » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:54 am

starman2 wrote:Personally I can't for the life of me think of ONE super hero show based on a comic book FEMALE that was any good EVER! The Catwoman movie sucked, Electra sucked, the Wonder Woman TV series sucked. So I don't see the need.


Well, it wasn't technically based on a comic book female, but Buffy was pretty much a comic book show complete with "super" villains, albeit of a supernatural (demons, vampires and the like) bent. It was a pretty good and successful show with a rabid fan following still today. It put Joss Whedon on the map and the main character was female. So it can be done.

Catwoman and Elektra were terrible, but to be fair the Director's Cut of Daredevil is actually pretty decent, IMO. Not great, but solid.

But for the most part comic book properties on TV don't have the budget to do them justice (no pun intended). Smallville was solid despite some bad episodes and the writers dragging certain elements out way too long. But it had a good 10 year run. Lois and Clark was good for its time. Honestly, I think it was a little ahead of its time. Arrow is really good so far. I have fond memories of the old Flash TV show, but that may just be nostalgia colored glasses.

One issue is that all the A-list comic book female characters all have over the top superhuman abilities that would be tough to pull off in a TV drama without a big budget (except Batgirl). And if you are going to put that kind of budget into a show, why not choose a more well known male lead character that would probably draw a bigger audience? I'm not saying that's right, but it is what it is.

Wonder Woman is probably your best chance at making a successful comic book show with a female lead, but who knows. If you could find another up and coming Joss Whedon style writer/director/producer, he could probably take a B list comic book female character and make a pretty good show out of it.

But here is another issue I have with comic book shows in general, I want the whole wider comic book universe touched upon. Smallville, IMO, didn't really get really good until they started bringing in other DC heroes. Arrow is hinting at other DC stuff from season 1 which is good. If someone were to make a Batgirl show, I'd watch it like crazy, but I expect regular appearances from Batman, Robin, and major Bat villains. Otherwise, it will be another Birds of Prey flop.

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Re: Power Levels of DC Characters vs. Freedomverse character

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:37 pm

Dragonblade wrote:
starman2 wrote:Personally I can't for the life of me think of ONE super hero show based on a comic book FEMALE that was any good EVER! The Catwoman movie sucked, Electra sucked, the Wonder Woman TV series sucked. So I don't see the need.


Well, it wasn't technically based on a comic book female, but Buffy was pretty much a comic book show complete with "super" villains, albeit of a supernatural (demons, vampires and the like) bent. It was a pretty good and successful show with a rabid fan following still today. It put Joss Whedon on the map and the main character was female. So it can be done.


Don't forget The Secret World of Alex Mack.

Dragonblade wrote:Wonder Woman is probably your best chance at making a successful comic book show with a female lead, but who knows.


An thats not going to happen anytime soon, since its proven to be a poison pill for anyone willing to try, as has Green Lantern.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
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