How do you create a vacuum?

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Quistar
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How do you create a vacuum?

Postby Quistar » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:22 pm

Meaning, of course, a power using the standard effects. Could be an attack or an area thing or both. I've a few ideas on the subject but would like to hear your builds for such a power before posting. Thanks!

- Andrew <:-(}

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Murkglow
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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby Murkglow » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:34 pm

You're going about this the wrong way. You don't try and make a vacuum or a campfire or whatever, you decide what effect you want the power to have (in a vacuum's case I would think suffocation and maybe some problems with pressure) and find the power that deals with that effect (in this case Affliction). Expect the power to do something else? Decide on what then find the power that does that.

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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby Quistar » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:42 pm

Murkglow wrote:You're going about this the wrong way. You don't try and make a vacuum or a campfire or whatever, you decide what effect you want the power to have (in a vacuum's case I would think suffocation and maybe some problems with pressure) and find the power that deals with that effect (in this case Affliction). Expect the power to do something else? Decide on what then find the power that does that.


Actually, I've come up with at least a couple of different effects that might apply here, which is why I'm asking for more feedback on the boards. Affliction is high on the list but it's not the only potential effect of being in a vacuum.

- Andrew <:-(}

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Belial666
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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby Belial666 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:16 am

Create Void [38 pp]
From your outstretched hand, an opaque, matte-black substance like the essence of deep space itself spreads out, immediately taking a permanent shape. That shape blocks the passage of air and natural illumination and any air trapped within is dispersed, effectively creating a near-vacuum like that of interstellar space. Everything else can pass into or through the created void unimpeded; creatures, objects, attacks and all other effects are not blocked or hindered at all - except for having to contend with the vacuum and darkness. Air and light based effects do interact with the created void and can be used to damage and destroy it like attacking normal objects - though it still has toughness equal to its rank.
Create 15 (only vs air/light, permanent, close range) link Transform 15 (air->vacuum, permanent)



I know the SOP is to see what effects something has and then make the effects instead of the thing itself but the above power literally creates a bubble of deep space and darkness - it simplifies things a lot since you don't have to go and see what effects that would have.
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ZamuelNow
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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby ZamuelNow » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:57 pm

Wouldn't Environment work as well? I figure the power's purpose was to create a literal zone of [effect].

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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby Quistar » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:22 pm

ZamuelNow wrote:Wouldn't Environment work as well? I figure the power's purpose was to create a literal zone of [effect].


I was considering this option as well, though I like the other ones. In fact, I finally remembered that the Hero's Handbook defines vacuum effects on page 188!!! So all I need to do is figure out how many ranks it would take to use Environment to do the deed. I'd probably define it as "Other effect" under the Power Options (using Herolab to check it, bless that little program!), but 1 point seems a bit cheap for what a vacuum does; DC 20 Fort check after 3 rounds or suffer the "bends" plus DC 15 Fort every round to avoid suffocation is far more powerful than any other listed Environment effect, and I'm being generous not tossing in radiation damage also.

Thoughts?

- Andrew <:-(}

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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby Quistar » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:23 pm

Belial666 wrote:
Create Void [38 pp]
From your outstretched hand, an opaque, matte-black substance like the essence of deep space itself spreads out, immediately taking a permanent shape. That shape blocks the passage of air and natural illumination and any air trapped within is dispersed, effectively creating a near-vacuum like that of interstellar space. Everything else can pass into or through the created void unimpeded; creatures, objects, attacks and all other effects are not blocked or hindered at all - except for having to contend with the vacuum and darkness. Air and light based effects do interact with the created void and can be used to damage and destroy it like attacking normal objects - though it still has toughness equal to its rank.
Create 15 (only vs air/light, permanent, close range) link Transform 15 (air->vacuum, permanent)



I know the SOP is to see what effects something has and then make the effects instead of the thing itself but the above power literally creates a bubble of deep space and darkness - it simplifies things a lot since you don't have to go and see what effects that would have.


Also clever, I hadn't considered Transform as an option!

- Andrew <:-(}

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JDRook
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Re: How do you create a vacuum?

Postby JDRook » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:14 am

Using the Vacuum rules described on 188, I would think the simplest way would be to make it as a stun-style Affliction:

Vacuum Attack: Ranged Affliction X (Resisted by Fort, Dazed/Stunned/Incap) - 2p per rank.

You'd likely want to increase the Duration on it to at least Concentration or Sustained to have the effect continue without having to make attack checks, and possibly Cumulative as well. You could also put an Area Effect on it.

Adding in the "lung damage" option would of course make the power more complex and granular, which may be more trouble than it's worth. If I had to do it, I would Link a Weaken Stamina to the Affliction and then limit each effect based on whether the target was holding their breath.

Using Environment with a customized Vacuum effect is another good option, although it may be too easy to make it too effective. Comparing Vacuum to effects like Heat/Cold, Vac has a similar Affliction structure but occurs significantly faster (per round vs per minute for extreme and per ten minutes for intense), so I'd recommend at least 3p per rank for the cost, and likely more if you wanted to include effects like pressure and radiation, so even a 5p per rank effect for Environment: Vacuum of Space could be reasonable. By comparison, Belial's Void would have the same range and about the same coverage as a rank 1 Environment, but it is also super-resilient at rank 15, and Create, Transform, and Environment all scale differently with rank, so it's hardly a straight comparison.
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