Hit Point Damage System

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Mr_Raven
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Hit Point Damage System

Postby Mr_Raven » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:34 pm

has anyone converted DC to a hit point based system?

My younger players all come from DD and are having a bit of a hard time comprehending the damge system , I would not think it wouldlend itself as well as somethoughts for 2nd ed , but I have to ask.


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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Periwinkle » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:21 pm

I've been using a hit point system with my group; they insisted on it.

Mine results in damage being more swingy than normal, and is roughly as follows:

  • Characters have hit points equal to 15 + number of ranks in traits which contribute to Toughness, even if the character's resulting Toughness bonus isn't always active. So a character with Stamina 2 and Force Field 8 would have +10 hit points, even when his or her Force Field isn't active. This applies similarly to Defensive Roll (each rank awards +1 hit point), and other Toughness ranks that are only situationally available, as well as to cases where someone is inflicted with Weaken Toughness. This is to prevent characters from having to recalculate hit point totals spontaneously.
  • The amount by which a Toughness check fails against a Damage effect is the number of hit points which are lost.
  • Characters do not suffer Toughness penalties from failed checks, but the other effects of Damage on further degrees of success continue to apply as normal.
  • Healing restores hit points equal to the Healing check -10, as well as removing conditions inflicted by Damage.
  • Regeneration restores 1 hit point per rank each minute, distributed as evenly as possible. At Regeneration 10, a character recovers 1 hit point per round.
  • The Recover action restores hit points equal to one-half of one's normal total and removes a Daze, Stagger, etc.
This is more or less my quick and dirty conversion to hit points. My initial tests have shown this to be a bit more lethal than I had wanted, so it'll probably see some changes.

Also, I recommend you take a look at the true20 forums, as a few people there - notably Baduin and grmbrand - have put work into adapting some nifty hit point systems that may be more to your liking.

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Shadowchaser » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:05 am

People keep trying to use a Hit Point system. There was a suggested one in the Mastermind's Manual for M&M 2nd Edition. I personally cannot stand hit point systems, the lack of one is a big reason why I initially gave M&M a try.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby ModernPrometheus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:06 am

Yeah, tell those kids they aren't in Kansas anymore. Tell 'em to grow up and stop living in the 70s. Tell 'em to let go of mommy's apron strings. Heck, they weren't even born when RPGs started to evolve away from so-called "hit points" so why are they - of all people - hanging on to that ancient, tired, creaky paradigm? Tell 'em that part of being a hero is facing the future unafraid. :D

I remember back in '80-'81 when we tried out Arms Law to give ourselves more outcomes than HP offered. Boy, howdy, granularity!
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby BARON » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:12 am

if your players are having a hard time understanding combat without hit points, tell them to get into a real fight sometime.

"hit points", seriously?

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Periwinkle » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:04 am

While there maybe numerous reasons why someone would rather not use hit points - as well as many why someone would - I don't see how that helps the OP at all.

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Paragon » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:17 am

Periwinkle wrote:While there maybe numerous reasons why someone would rather not use hit points - as well as many why someone would - I don't see how that helps the OP at all.


Yeah, and some of the responses have been needlessly negative.

That said, viewing past discussions of hit point implementation into M&M (and nothing much about 3e/DCA has changed this) pretty much suggests it will really end up causing more trouble than its worth. The damage save system really does underlay a little too much of the system to be easily changed without a lot of ripple effects.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Mr_Raven » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:46 am

thanks for the really positive comments guys NOT, my players range from 9-11 , I am translating the game to something they understand, upto now its been Hit points or wounds in 40k, I am just trying to make them broaden there thinking with them playing supers..

ok it deed mean me banning wolverine and a REALLY nasty version of the joker , but thats kids today...

I have a working idea, one day
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby BARON » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:32 pm

lol okay the 9-11 year olds changes things (older players and it's a different game. i'd tell *them* to get into a real fight). hit points in M&M might not work out perfectly. I do remember a system in 2nd ed in the gamemaster's guide. it would be nice to see something similar in 3rd ed that I could use with DCA (vehicle chase rules too. that is my single biggest gripe with DCA)

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby insaniac99 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:44 pm

O
BARON wrote:lol okay the 9-11 year olds changes things (older players and it's a different game. i'd tell *them* to get into a real fight). hit points in M&M might not work out perfectly. I do remember a system in 2nd ed in the gamemaster's guide. it would be nice to see something similar in 3rd ed that I could use with DCA (vehicle chase rules too. that is my single biggest gripe with DCA)

One of the threat reports has a really good write-up for chases as challenge sequences.

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby ModernPrometheus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:52 pm

Mr_Raven wrote:thanks for the really positive comments guys NOT

And here I thought a big ol' smiley indicated my tongue was firmly in my cheek. And I was sure the reference to Arms Law would clinch it. Live and learn. (Despite the age of the system, the latest edition of Rolemaster is recent enough that it shouldn't be too obscure a reference. In any case, it's a hit point based combat system that also tried to build in additional results with the result that it is exceptionally lethal.)

For 9 to 11, if it were me (and someday soon it will be), I'd start them with ICONS to get them in the mood and mode for super-heroing. ICONS is hit point based (called Stamina). Then I'd transition them over to M&M, toughness saves and all, with a healthy dose of congratulations for how smart they are to be playing such a sophisticated game like M&M.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Captain Werewolf » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:51 am

Here's an idea somewhat modified/stolen from the Spirit of the Century RPG:
Have a "Health Pyramid," with 3 boxes in the bottom row, 2 in the middle row, 1 on the top. The bottom row is for -1 modifiers, the middle row is for dazed's, and the top box is for staggered. Determine degrees of failure for toughness saves as normal. On a 1-degree failure, x-out a box on the bottom row. On a 2-degree failure, x-out a box in the middle row (and daze the character). On a 3-degree failure, x-out the top box and stagger the character. 4-degree failures still cause automatic incapacitation. When there is no box to fill on the appropriate row, move up until you find an empty box to fill--if there aren't any empty boxes on or above the appropriate row, K.O. that character.

Here's why this might be neat: instead of collecting wounds, you treat your fourth first-degree failure like a second-degree failure, your third second-degree failure like a third-degree failure, and your second third-degree failure like a fourth-degree failure. And it's visual, so you get that sense of progression as the pyramid fills up, but it's not like straight HP, where you don't have adverse effects until 0/"K.O.'d." And you can still get those cool one-punch fight-enders.

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Shadowchaser » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:07 pm

Mr_Raven wrote:thanks for the really positive comments guys NOT, my players range from 9-11 , I am translating the game to something they understand, upto now its been Hit points or wounds in 40k, I am just trying to make them broaden there thinking with them playing supers..

ok it deed mean me banning wolverine and a REALLY nasty version of the joker , but thats kids today...

I have a working idea, one day


Apologies if my comment seemed negative, I was simply adding an (admittedly unsolicited) opinion to my answer which contained what I hoped would be useful information. I do hope you manage to find a simple way to teach your players how to enjoy the game, and you might find some value in the Mastermind's Manual approach to hit points. There have been several other versions posted (in this thread and in others) which might be helpful to you as well.

Good luck!
James Dawsey, Owner and Publisher of Vigilance Press

Look for Vigilance Press on RPGNow.com and Drive-Thru RPG!

Or check out our website for free previews and podcast links!
http://www.vigilancepress.com/

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Mr_Raven » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:19 pm

ModernPrometheus wrote:
I remember back in '80-'81 when we tried out Arms Law to give ourselves more outcomes than HP offered. Boy, howdy, granularity!



if this is what you mean , I have absolutly not the foggiest idea what your chuntering about...
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Mr_Raven » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:30 pm

this is what I have initially , some ideas from Periwinkle

DAMAGE
A successful attack with a Damage effect requires get to make a Toughness resistance check.

DAMAGE RESISTANCE CHECK


Toughness +d20 vs. [Damage rank + 15]

The amount by which a Toughness check fails against a Damage effect is the number of hit points which are lost.

HIT POINTS
Characters have hit points equal to 15 + number of ranks in traits which contribute to Toughness, even if the character's resulting Toughness bonus isn't always active + CON score. So a character with Stamina 2 and Force Field 8 would have +10 hit points, even when his or her Force Field isn't active. This applies similarly to Defensive Roll (each rank awards +1 hit point), and other Toughness ranks that are only situationally available, as well as to cases where someone is inflicted with Weaken Toughness.

Characters do suffer Toughness penalties from failed checks.

DEGREES OF FAILURE

Dc-0 to 4 No Failure
DC–5 to 9 One (Failure) -1
DC–10 to 14 Two (Failure) -2
DC–15 to 19 Three (Failure) -3
DC–20+ Four (Failure)

Failure (one degree): The target has a –1 toughness penalty to further resistance checks against damage.
Failure (two degrees): The target has a further –2 toughness penalty to checks against damage.
Failure (three degrees): The target has another -3 toughness penalty to further checks against damage.
Failure (four degrees): The target is incapacitated .

These penalties stack until the target is knocked out.


For example

Kid Atomic (Close dmg 12) hits The Gorgon (Toughness 14)

27 (12+15) vs 14+d20

27-22 = 5

The Gorgon Rolls a 22 , failure
5 hit points and 1 degree of Failure, The Gorgon is also now at -1 toughness to subsequent Damage Resistance Checks
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