Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Join the never-ending battle for truth and justice in the world's greatest super-hero universe, using the world's greatest super-hero roleplaying game! This forum is for discussion of DC ADVENTURES.
Balance00
Bystander
Bystander
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:01 am

Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Balance00 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:07 pm

Can a single target be hit with multiple area attacks off of this combination?

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Monolith » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:48 pm

As far as raw, area attacks require no to-hit roll and thus can't normally use mutliattack: there's no attack roll to see if you hit, let alone hit for extra damage.

User avatar
JDRook
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 1957
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:44 pm

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby JDRook » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:52 pm

So what are you trying to do? Lob a bunch of grenades around you?
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

My original characters thread (2e)
My League of Legends conversion thread (3e)
My Rules Musings in 3e

Stigger
Cohort
Cohort
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 am

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Stigger » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:56 am

Which doesn't make much sense, ruleswise, considering the existence of things like the Mk. 19 grenade launcher and rocket pods on helicopters, which are definitely area attacks that can be multi-attacked with... or cluster munitions in general. But that's probably a little too simulationist of me, and I get why it's frowned upon.

User avatar
FuzzyBoots
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 9719
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:15 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:38 am

Stigger wrote:Which doesn't make much sense, ruleswise, considering the existence of things like the Mk. 19 grenade launcher and rocket pods on helicopters, which are definitely area attacks that can be multi-attacked with... or cluster munitions in general. But that's probably a little too simulationist of me, and I get why it's frowned upon.

I suspect that this is one of those cases which was better served in 2E's Shapeable, which targeted a series of 5-foot squares and could have Selective to skip squares, or 2E Mecha and Manga's Cluster area which is more or less explicitly a combination of Autofire and Area by turning it into a Targeted Area.

Stigger
Cohort
Cohort
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 am

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Stigger » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:36 pm

Having seen the effects of a brace of 5 rockets hitting a relatively small area first hand, I don't think 5' squares really does what they can do justice, but it would definitely be an improvement. And I already treat shapeable that way, with each increase in rank doubling the number of cubes affected. Not perfect, but it works out better in practice that the current shapeable I find, which is effectively just useless.

User avatar
FuzzyBoots
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 9719
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:15 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:11 pm

Stigger wrote:Having seen the effects of a brace of 5 rockets hitting a relatively small area first hand, I don't think 5' squares really does what they can do justice, but it would definitely be an improvement. And I already treat shapeable that way, with each increase in rank doubling the number of cubes affected. Not perfect, but it works out better in practice that the current shapeable I find, which is effectively just useless.

{nods} 3E Shapeable definitely needs errata. Either it's functionally useless (covers an area one foot high in a 5x5 square) or it's too good (you can cover a functionally infinite area by having an infinitely small cross-section.

Shock
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 12051
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Shock » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:33 pm

Stigger wrote:Which doesn't make much sense, ruleswise, considering the existence of things like the Mk. 19 grenade launcher and rocket pods on helicopters, which are definitely area attacks that can be multi-attacked with... or cluster munitions in general. But that's probably a little too simulationist of me, and I get why it's frowned upon.

Just consider the whole volley of rockets to be one area attack. You can increase the area and damage over a single rocket attack to differentiate if you want.

Stigger
Cohort
Cohort
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 am

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Stigger » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:19 pm

Sure, one could do that, but if the helicopter, for instance, is in motion and effectively strafing an area with rockets that have a burst effect, then that gets a little harder to do. Maybe if you treat it as a multiattack against a dc10+ to hit a given area rather than a particular person it might work out better. That would be how I would handle it anyway, though I don't anticipate it coming up in my games any time soon.

And by the by, I'd just have to hit someone with a hard and heavy book if they tried to make a shapeable effect with that tiny little cross-section. Sure, it works RAW, but it would irk me no end and GM fiat would have to be invoked unless the effect actually made sense to use it that way.

User avatar
JDRook
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 1957
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:44 pm

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby JDRook » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:24 am

FWIW, they did tweak Shapeable in the Deluxe Handbook so now it specifically states that to affect an average human you need 4 cubic feet. That wouldn't stop players with that mindset from picking 7 targets and connecting them with gossamer strands, but at least it limits some of the ridiculous.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

My original characters thread (2e)
My League of Legends conversion thread (3e)
My Rules Musings in 3e

User avatar
FuzzyBoots
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 9719
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:15 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Contact:

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby FuzzyBoots » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:29 am

JDRook wrote:FWIW, they did tweak Shapeable in the Deluxe Handbook so now it specifically states that to affect an average human you need 4 cubic feet. That wouldn't stop players with that mindset from picking 7 targets and connecting them with gossamer strands, but at least it limits some of the ridiculous.

Ah. Indeed it does. I still think that the 2E version, with its 5x5x5 foot cubes, made more sense, but this is an improvement.

Shock
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 12051
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Shock » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:37 am

Stigger wrote:Sure, one could do that, but if the helicopter, for instance, is in motion and effectively strafing an area with rockets that have a burst effect, then that gets a little harder to do. Maybe if you treat it as a multiattack against a dc10+ to hit a given area rather than a particular person it might work out better. That would be how I would handle it anyway, though I don't anticipate it coming up in my games any time soon.

A strafe type attack could also be handled with a Line area. Add multiple ranks of the Area extra if you want the strafe area to be wider.

Stigger
Cohort
Cohort
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 am

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Stigger » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:44 pm

Yeah, that is possible, though still a bit troublesome to my head in terms of logic. That said, much like Fuzzy, I prefer the 5' cube version infinitely more. But that's what house rules are for I suppose.

rtrimmer
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:10 pm
Location: Aurora, CO

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby rtrimmer » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:43 am

Well, barrages are only semi-shapeable, so I see that as a 1 point Extra ("Semi-shapeable") on Burst 2 and up.
For increased DC from multiple explosions I just add Unreliable (50%) ranks.

So IMC an M19 can do a wide, semi shapeable, barrage: Ranged Burst x (ss) 3 Damage 5 -- 26 points. Or Ranged Burst x 2 ss Damage 7, two ranks are Unreliable -- 27 points. Close enough.


FYI, Wikipedia says that both the M19 and standard frag have the same wound radius -- 15 meters.

Foreshadow
Hero
Hero
Posts: 1778
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:26 pm

Re: Multi-Attack and Area Attacks

Postby Foreshadow » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:55 pm

That is what a Targeted area attack is. Make an attack with a roll to hit and apply this against the defense of all in the area, and only the main target can suffer a multi-attack or critical. The attack effect misses any not hit by the attack roll. So its an area attack you get to save all or nothing rather than half effect, but if your hit you suffer Area damage, and one target gets the multi-attack effect.


Return to “DC Adventures”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest