Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Join the never-ending battle for truth and justice in the world's greatest super-hero universe, using the world's greatest super-hero roleplaying game! This forum is for discussion of DC ADVENTURES.
spikevampire
Collaborator
Collaborator
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:45 pm

Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby spikevampire » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:09 am

Dear Gamers and GMs,
A quick question about Snare.

Generally is a power with a descriptor (webs, ice, plants, mistical energy, force fields ecc) and most of the time sounds like a create objects that encase someone, which could actually be the case.

As we know, in 3ed is thought as an affliction rather than an object following a dodge ST and a following strength check to break out free from it.

Thinking about Spidey's, Iceman or anyone else snare's I can see that in most cases you are allowe to actually punch, tear, slash your way out of it rather than force you're way out only through sheer strength.
Will you allow a Wolvie to break out with his str+claws damage or still only strength?
I guess that he might have his hands in a way that he cannot attack very well but still... Ssomeone with an aura power could easily damage the snare, and this should give a bonus.


Also what about a third person trying to help someone free with a machete? Can he just add str and damage from the weapon?

It feels to me that snare is better handled by an encasing created object rather than a shapeless affliction attached to someone.

What do you think???

User avatar
digitalangel
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:45 am

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby digitalangel » Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:48 pm

I would say (like a lot of things in M&M) that it comes back to the descriptor. There are a ton of ways to build an effect that traps an opponent.

Some snare effects (green lantern type trap you in a bubble effects) are much better built via create object.

Others are better built with snare (hands/vines/etc rising from the ground to grab them, encompassing the victim in a field of sound/energy/something else INTANGABLE, some equipment or devices similar to net/foam guns used for riot control in some places)

If the victim is trully enclosed in something tangable, or even snared by something that could be cut then yes I would allow players at least some bonus from having an attack similar to claws to escape with. This works great if zombie hands are rising form the earth to grab you, vines form a plant controller, Spidey's webbing, maybe even an effect like Iceman's. You also have to think about some effects.

If you are being held in the air by a snare such as telekenetic abilities, whirlwind/water spout, sonic field, ... it would not be unreasonable for the GM to not only say that weapons/claws do not help, but possibly to simply say you don't get a chance to escape if you failed to avoid it to begin with. Of course this would probably come with a HP as well.

This is why a description of what teh effect is really doing is just as important as the point build of the ability.
Image

User avatar
JDRook
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 1957
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:44 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby JDRook » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:12 pm

I think the mechanical difference between being Snared and being Trapped in a Created Object is target mobility and conditions. Wrapping a target webs/ice/plants is going to impose Conditions* but surrounding a target with a green bubble or dropping a cage on him only limits moving away and does not impose any Conditions.

Using powers on either Traps or Snares is going to depend on what can be brought to bear on the respective effect. In most cases I think a Snare should limit the ability to pull a weapon or something similar, or possibly the ability to use things like energy blasts without hitting yourself, while Traps would generally allow you to bring all weapons to bear. This works balance-wise IMO since Snare is quite specialized while Trapping is just one sub-effect of Create Object and therefore should not be as effective. By the same reasoning, Damage Auras are really expensive, and using them to get out of Snares while immobilized seems sensible and balanced.

Someone else attacking a Trap from the outside (or even two or more inside) could easily target the Trap separately, and in fact I think coordinating Team Attacks against the Trap would be perfect.

A Snare gets trickier: I recall the Hero System had a bunch of different settings for their Snare that would have it take attack damage from any attacks on the PC, or make it transparent to damage, and a few other options. I would think that by default you should treat the Snare as a form of Cover, giving Partial Cover at 1 degree of Snare effect and Total Cover at 2nd degree or higher, and targeting either the Snare or the PC would be a -2 or -5 penalty respectively, with a chance of hitting the other one. Having Precise or an appropriate Precise Attack would remove that penalty. You could Team Attack the Snare, but I think Aiding would be more effective, since you'd be more worried about precision than power. :)


*typically Vulnerable/Hindered and Defenseless/Immobile, but one of the advantages of Affliction is you can customize your Conditions to work how you want.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

My original characters thread (2e)
My League of Legends conversion thread (3e)
My Rules Musings in 3e

spikevampire
Collaborator
Collaborator
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:45 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby spikevampire » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:19 pm

Ok what you said made me realize that yes create objects seems more appropriate sometimes, but I won't get the conditions and not always is so appropriate if has a weird descriptor.

I'll try to use aid action to improve someone's strength check to get free from the snare rather than damaging the snare itself from the outside. It's pretty reasonable for most power (without precise feat for example) that trying to hit the snare will result in a critical hit to the person inside...

Thank you!!!

User avatar
Greyman
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2674
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:45 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby Greyman » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:12 am

The Overcome check for Snare is based on Damage (or Sleight of Hand). Damage includes, but is not limited to, Strength-based Damage effects. Any Damage effect you may use while bound is legitimate.

By the way, the Overcome check still takes place at the end of turn recovery step, as normal. It does not use an Action, but a GM may rule that the character must be able to act as it is an active check.


Much like other Afflictions, the two ways one may assist another character to overcome a Snare are:
  • (1) to use an Aide Action to improve that character's Overcome check, or
  • (2) to Counter the affliction effect (with one's own Damage effect).

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:38 am

Greyman wrote:The Overcome check for Snare is based on Damage (or Sleight of Hand). Damage includes, but is not limited to, Strength-based Damage effects. Any Damage effect you may use while bound is legitimate.


Except for when its not. I know that's what it says in the book, but the book oversteps on this one. Snare as a premade can also be used for things like martial artists using a paralysing strike, or a technovore infecting the OS of a Iron Man character with a software lockdown.... An then you would ignore that text & come up with your own narrative work around based on plot & descriptors. :D
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

User avatar
danelsan
Daredevil
Daredevil
Posts: 787
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:25 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby danelsan » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:54 am

saint_matthew wrote:
Greyman wrote:The Overcome check for Snare is based on Damage (or Sleight of Hand). Damage includes, but is not limited to, Strength-based Damage effects. Any Damage effect you may use while bound is legitimate.


Except for when its not. I know that's what it says in the book, but the book oversteps on this one. Snare as a premade can also be used for things like martial artists using a paralysing strike, or a technovore infecting the OS of a Iron Man character with a software lockdown.... An then you would ignore that text & come up with your own narrative work around based on plot & descriptors. :D

Presumably, a paralyzing strike is Overcome by Fortitude or maybe Will, not Damage. Technovirus also seems like the kind of thing that you can't beat by using servomotors or repulsor blasts...

No need to "ignore the text". It just means you won't be using the pre-made version of Snare that is overcome by Damage
My DeviantArt page
Batgirl avatar by ArtNerdEm

spikevampire
Collaborator
Collaborator
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:45 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby spikevampire » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:01 am

Exactly, I think Snare here is underpowered especially in group situation as some of the power effect could actually help you breaking through (wolverine's claws should provide him a bonus to escape the snare as they weaken the snare itself) and for groups someone outside could Aid with their strength/damage effect.

I can't really picture someone Aid the Fortitude check of a friend to break free of a paralyzing poison in the air...

Or is that allowed in game???
I might missing something...

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby Monolith » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:57 am

spikevampire wrote:I can't really picture someone Aid the Fortitude check of a friend to break free of a paralyzing poison in the air...

"Let me suck that poison out of you" or "let me urinate on that jellyfish sting." A good way to make life-long friends. :)

Characters might also have powers that could be beneficial. The description of the aiding might involve a power while the actual act is simply a game mechanic.

spikevampire
Collaborator
Collaborator
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:45 pm

Re: Snare breakout (strength+damage) and third person help

Postby spikevampire » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:56 am

Yeah I guess it will do... Like trying to help someone shaking off a mind control!

Thanks! Helpful as usual


Return to “DC Adventures”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests