Ultimate aim, critical threat?

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spikevampire
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Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby spikevampire » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:49 am

Hey guys,
Quick question which has probably been answered already somewhere but where I looked at it.

Is there any way to score a threat of critical with an hero point?

The closest thing seems to be ultimate aim, 20 on hit, but it says it's not to be considered a natural 20 or a critical hit. Is it possible to consider it a critical threat or not???

Peace,
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Re: Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:21 pm

M&M doesn't really have the whole "critical threat" thing. Either you hit with a crit or you don't. Given that Extra Effort (easily paid for with an HP) only nets you 2 extra ranks, I'm a bit iffy on the idea of allowing the layering of 5 ranks. That said, I could readily see it for the "rank 0 effect added" method, especially if they pick a good descriptor for their attack.

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Re: Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby Fists of Dorn » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:50 pm

FuzzyBoots wrote:M&M doesn't really have the whole "critical threat" thing. Either you hit with a crit or you don't.



M&M does have a "critical threat" thing; though in practice I can see where it could seem like it didn't (i.e. results of a natural 20 plus the attack bonus always equalling/exceeding the defense value being targeted). However if the threat range rolled on the die plus the attack check does not equal/exceed the defense targeted, it is not a critical hit (and if the threat range rolled was not a natural 20, then the attack fails to hit as well).


spikevampire wrote:Is there any way to score a threat of critical with an hero point?



In order to score a threat, and possibly then a critical hit, the result on the die must be within the threat range of your character's attack; the default is a "20" on the die. This is why the Ultimate Aim use of the Ultimate Effort advantage specifically states that it does not result in a critical threat, because you are using an ability to automatically get a result of "20" instead of rolling and taking the chance of possibly getting the "20".
Here are the rules sections pertinent to critical threats and critical hits. Note that in each it specifically requires the result of the die roll (meaning a die must be rolled, so no using abilities like Ultimate Effort that provide for a result without a roll):


M&M 3E Heroes Handbook p.13 wrote:If you roll a 20 on the die when making a check you’ve scored a critical success. Determine the degree of success normally and then increase it by one degree. This can turn a low-level success into something more significant, but more importantly, it can turn a failure into a full-fledged success! A critical success with an attack check is called a critical hit, discussed later in this chapter and in the Action & Adventure chapter.



M&M 3E Heroes Handbook p.188 wrote:When you make an attack check and get a natural 20 (the d20 actually shows 20), you automatically hit, regardless of your target’s defense, and you score a threat. The hit might also be a critical hit (sometimes called a “crit”). To find out if it’s a critical hit, determine if the attack check total is equal to or greater than the target’s defense. If so, it is a critical hit. If not, the attack still hits, but as a normal attack, not a critical.


INCREASED THREAT RANGE

Characters with the Improved Critical advantage (see page 84) can score a threat on a natural result less than 20, although they still automatically hit only on a natural 20. Any attack check that doesn’t result in a hit is not a threat.



So other than using the hero point to increase your character's threat range (most GMs I know would allow this after an attack has been rolled), or by using the re-roll portion of a hero point (or luck for that matter) to get a result in the character's threat range, then no there really isn't much way to get a critical hit with a hero point.

Though there are other ways that you could get similar effects:

-Use extra effort to give yourself a +2 circumstance bonus on your attack check, then use the power attack maneuver (no advantage necessary) to increase your attack's effect rank by two. Must be done before making your attack.

-Feinting your target so that he is vulnerable- thereby negating any defensive rolls he may have and allowing you to more reliably use power attack to land a higher effect rank attack. You can use extra effort to gain an additional standard action which would allow you to attack the vulnerable target in the same round (Some GMs allow Feints to be used as a move action by taking a -5 circumstance penalty on the skill check).

-Hit with an affliction that imposes the Defenseless condition, thereby making any attack where a die is rolled that hits the target automatically a critical hit. Again extra effort can be used to gain the additional standard action to make the attack before the target has the opportunity to recover from the affliction.


Generally speaking you just cannot directly pay one Hero Point and gain a critical hit; though if you can come up with a spectacular and appropriate idea for a use of the "Edit Scene" use of a Hero Point, some GMs may allow you to treat a target as defenseless for a round or so.




-Fists.

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Re: Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby spikevampire » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:14 pm

Uhm, no specific way to trigger a critical with a hero point then.

Thanks for the suggestions, I see that with some of them it's possible to get a critical, especially in team efforts.

One question arose from these suggestions:
In case of re-roll for a hero point base effect (re-roll a dice and add 10 to every result from 1 to 10) what would be considered critical? A plain 20 reroll? A 10+10 reroll?

:) Thanks

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Re: Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby Monolith » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:24 pm

The only thing that is ever a crit is a natural 20 roll. Never a sum that simply adds to 20.

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Re: Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby JDRook » Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:11 pm

spikevampire wrote:One question arose from these suggestions:
In case of re-roll for a hero point base effect (re-roll a dice and add 10 to every result from 1 to 10) what would be considered critical? A plain 20 reroll? A 10+10 reroll?

I think there was some discussion about this elsewhere, and I believe the consensus was that 10+10 would be an unnatural 20 and therefore not critical. You are already using the HP to roll again, so effectively you've already doubled your odds of getting a natural 20. There was still debate on whether the second 20 should be considered natural and therefore critical, but definitely no on 10+10.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: Ultimate aim, critical threat?

Postby spikevampire » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:09 am

I thought that was the case... I think I'll go with double chances of critical (because of the two consecutive rolls). I like the idea of an hero point "help" with a critical, generally you use it when you want to end everything with a full all out/power attack final extra effort attack auhuahuhauah

:) thanks guys! Always constructive talking to you!


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