Using Create to form Headquarters?

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Claire Redfield
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Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby Claire Redfield » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:22 pm

Assuming you had enough ranks to cover the proper volume, and Precise if you want any fancy stuff, could you use Create to summon up a headquarters from nothing? What would be a good rule of thumb for that? Just create the structure at whatever volume is appropriate, or maybe something more like "Your ranks in Create serve as Equipment ranks for the purposes of creating the Headquarters"?
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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:41 pm

Claire Redfield wrote:Assuming you had enough ranks to cover the proper volume, and Precise if you want any fancy stuff, could you use Create to summon up a headquarters from nothing? What would be a good rule of thumb for that? Just create the structure at whatever volume is appropriate, or maybe something more like "Your ranks in Create serve as Equipment ranks for the purposes of creating the Headquarters"?

I might allow it for a temporary situation without Features, say to create shelter from the storm. But past that, they nee to spend their EP.

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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby kenseido » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:05 pm

I agree. The power can be the mechanism for creating it, but the players need to spend the points on Equipment.
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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby Monolith » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:59 am

The power profile has an example of using summon to make vehicles just appear. I would have no issue doing the same thing with a headquarters. It could be an alternate effect of create so that it uses the same descriptor: it would look like your create is making it but it's really its own effect.

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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:21 am

As other people have said, no, not based on create as an effect. Yes I would allow you to build a basic shape, maybe even a complex shape, but its not a headquarters, it can't have HQ features... At least not built on the create effect.

You seem to have got stuck on the word create... Remember this is an effect based game, and the first step on building something is figuring out what the effect is. The effect here is equipment points, specifically for the purpose of build a HQ.... An that's pretty easy to do.... Its just Enhanced Trait (Equipment), possibly with the flaw "for building an ice HQ only".

Just hope your GM doesn't say no because while itws not breaking the rules, its sure as heck is bending them into strange shapes.
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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby Flying Cobra » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:07 am

If Create had the proper extras on it- Precise (as you said), Permanent, possibly Innate and Stationary, then I'd allow the initial creation. I would then calculate the point cost for the resulting HQ and withhold Power Points until the cost was met (possibly with interest, depending on how useful the HQ proved to be).

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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby Claire Redfield » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:38 pm

What I ended up going with was Enhanced Advantage, which I don't see as bending the rules into strange shapes. It's magical power that allows the creation of this HQ, so why not?

Flying Cobra wrote:If Create had the proper extras on it- Precise (as you said), Permanent, possibly Innate and Stationary, then I'd allow the initial creation. I would then calculate the point cost for the resulting HQ and withhold Power Points until the cost was met (possibly with interest, depending on how useful the HQ proved to be).


That would work, too. Just like someone acquiring a weapon and then wanting to spend points to permanently acquire it.
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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby JDRook » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:13 pm

Claire Redfield wrote:It's magical power that allows the creation of this HQ, so why not?


The biggest issue with treating an HQ effectively as a summonable minion is that HQs can have a few innate features that are even cheaper and more powerful than anything a regular minion or vehicle could do based on the fact that it is huge and immobile, so taking that away can be unbalancing. For instance, I could make a room-sized HQ with Toughness 20 walls, Defense Systems that operate at PL cap, and say a Laboratory, all for 5ep or a single power point. Buying it as a Summon would cost 2p (3p if it's Continuous Duration) and let me create a nearly impregnable bunker whenever I want to, including the middle of combat. And for another rank I can add five (2xPL) point Effects to the HQ. This is an extreme example, but it does demonstrate the need for oversight.

Monolith wrote:The power profile has an example of using summon to make vehicles just appear. I would have no issue doing the same thing with a headquarters. It could be an alternate effect of create so that it uses the same descriptor: it would look like your create is making it but it's really its own effect.


If I were GM, I might allow this, although I'd insist that the HQ be designed in advance. I'd probably also recommend giving it the Slow Flaw so that it takes at least a minute for the HQ to form and it couldn't just pop up in the middle of a fight. Some no-discount limits like requiring enough space for the HQ to form would just be part of the power.
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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby Claire Redfield » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:12 pm

JDRook wrote:
Claire Redfield wrote:It's magical power that allows the creation of this HQ, so why not?


The biggest issue with treating an HQ effectively as a summonable minion is that HQs can have a few innate features that are even cheaper and more powerful than anything a regular minion or vehicle could do based on the fact that it is huge and immobile, so taking that away can be unbalancing. For instance, I could make a room-sized HQ with Toughness 20 walls, Defense Systems that operate at PL cap, and say a Laboratory, all for 5ep or a single power point. Buying it as a Summon would cost 2p (3p if it's Continuous Duration) and let me create a nearly impregnable bunker whenever I want to, including the middle of combat. And for another rank I can add five (2xPL) point Effects to the HQ. This is an extreme example, but it does demonstrate the need for oversight.


Oh, I just meant on using Enhanced Advantage to represent creating the HQ magically. Using Summon or Create would be a different story. I'd have to think about how best to handle that to avoid the situations you describe.

It was for my build of Elsa, the Snow Queen, and I went with a Continuous Enhanced Advantage (Equipment). The castle she creates is more or less permanent, though I'm sure she could dismiss it and create another (or power stunt another permanent one) if she wanted to, and considering the sequence in which she creates it, there's no real indication it's something she can only do once or even at great effort.

Monolith wrote:The power profile has an example of using summon to make vehicles just appear. I would have no issue doing the same thing with a headquarters. It could be an alternate effect of create so that it uses the same descriptor: it would look like your create is making it but it's really its own effect.


JDRook wrote:If I were GM, I might allow this, although I'd insist that the HQ be designed in advance. I'd probably also recommend giving it the Slow Flaw so that it takes at least a minute for the HQ to form and it couldn't just pop up in the middle of a fight. Some no-discount limits like requiring enough space for the HQ to form would just be part of the power.


Part of the descriptors and just common sense, really. You can't just make a Wayne Manor appear out of thin-air in the middle of a grocery store. Or, if you could, the results would be pretty disastrous....
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Re: Using Create to form Headquarters?

Postby JDRook » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:23 pm

Ok, if the HQ is created in one spot to be permanent and isn't actually portable, then "Magical" can be a descriptor for that and you don't really need any more. Making it Enhanced technically allows it to be countered or nullified, though, which might be appropriate as a kind of anti-magic or dispelling effect, although I'm not sure what the opposed check might be: vs Enhanced Equipment rank? It would probably be easier to make dispelling the HQ a Complication, with Elsa getting a Hero Point for it. Then again, you shouldn't get Hero Points for failure of equipment-level stuff, so it's still a little grey on how to handle it.
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