Portals

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ronyon
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Portals

Postby ronyon » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:28 pm

I want portals that allow anything through, attacks ,sensory information and objects.
And I want them to go both ways. Any ideas on how to do this?

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Re: Portals

Postby Stigger » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:38 pm

Depends... if it's a 'natural feature', then it doesn't really matter. If it's a called upon power, then I'd guess Teleport, affects others, portal, a 1 point flat feature to cover sensory stuff (presuming it works both ways), a 1 point flat feature to allow attacks to pass through it (unless the attacks are only allowed one way, then I'd say +1 per rank, same with sensory stuff really), and probably something about duration of said portal if you want it more than concentration. I'd probably toss in extended range too, and maybe even limited to extended, depending on how you're reasoning out the power. A fairly expensive power to say the least, but you could justify some interesting alternate effects off of it I'm sure to make that cost go a bit further than it might otherwise.

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Re: Portals

Postby ronyon » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:37 pm

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
The alternative powers would be mostly redundant, as the portal would do everything at once.
There are plenty of good ways to model the effects of using portals with ones own powers/equipment/etc, but when one is trying to grant these effects to others it gets expensive and complicated and when anyone can access these effects, it can be more complicated still.
I wish Portal was universally usable and two way by default and one would have to add Selective in order to control who or what could pass through.
Your Features could do the trick but they are arbitrary, and may not fly in eevery game

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Re: Portals

Postby Stigger » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:30 am

You could always use the Uncontrolled flaw for a PP reduction, especially if the person creating the portal has no real control over who uses it beyond duration, which is pretty reasonable really if an enemy can slip in as its closing, or even opening. In that respect, it would at least negate the cost increase of Affects Others, which would make sense if the creator had no say over who and who could not use it.

Though looking at it from a GM's perspective, which is pretty much my default point of view, I would tend to agree that Portal should be two-way and useable by anyone. Going off of memory, I'd say a fairly good argument could be made that it is useable by anyone, and that it is two-way. But that I'll admit is coming from a D&D background, and the view that portals are something that can definitely bit you in the heiney.

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Re: Portals

Postby JDRook » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:51 pm

The Portal Extra for Teleport already costs +2p/rank to effectively make it Concentration Duration, so my interpretation folds a few more details into it.

- Since it's a physical portal and not just vanishing stuff and making it appear elsewhere, I completely ignore the mass of objects going through portals (otherwise the only logical course is mass per round, which I've never seen come up in the source material). The only limit is the size of the stuff going through. The Teleport Power Profile defines a base portal as distance rank -2 (6') wide, which in theory could let two Medium humanoids walk through together if they stayed close, or even 4 if they dove/flew/dropped in, but would be too small to let in most cars. The portal can be increased by one rank as a +1 Full Extra.

- I figure by default the portal would be full of black void or swirling clouds or shimmering light or something, and wouldn't show you your destination unless it also had Accurate. For a portal that is essentially an actual two-way opening to somewhere else could be done with a linked Remote Sensing at the same rank as the Teleport, which is the equivalent of a +5 Full Extra (All Senses). Of course, given that it will not be hard to spot and absolutely anyone, friend foe or bystander, could perceive, travel or attack through it exactly like they would through a door or tunnel, I could see calling that a -3 Flaw, which would make it 6p/rank. That's still Concentration Duration, though, so I would be willing to bet you'd want to increase that to Sustained.

- The last issue would be how far the portal reaches. To connect any two points on Earth would be at least rank 21, which would be almost all of a standard PC's starting points. You could go with the Extended Extra and now you can go the same distance for 13 ranks, but it takes two move actions and leaves you Dazed and Vulnerable when you pass through. Limited to Extended would defray the cost, but would logically set up a minimum distance of at least a mile. Easy would remove the conditions, but it would still require two moves (which could be considered "one move to portal edge, and one to step forward on the other side"). So for pure "run and gun" simplicity allowing you to charge through the portal firing all the way, you should probably avoid any Extended and pay the full price.

On the other hand, if you're using the portal to travel to other planets/dimensions/times, you could just apply the +2 Portal and +2 "real connection" to the proper Movement effect and you've got it for cheap; 18p or less, depending on how specialized it is.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: Portals

Postby ronyon » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:11 am

Thanks for weighing in Rook.
From what you posted I gather you consider the ability to attack through a Portal to be innate to the Modifier.
Am I understanding that correctly?

I like the Uncontrolled idea, I also am thinking Side Effect could help.

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Re: Portals

Postby JDRook » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:28 pm

Essentially. I kind of folded that all in with "real connection" and assumed that as long everybody can attack through the portal it should balance out.

Conceptually, it would be very similar to opposing groups on either side of a wall and someone opens a door, and both groups can use it equally well. The only edge your PC would have is controlling when and where the door is open. If the portal maker could filter what goes through, that starts to get pretty powerful and I might make that cost more than a measly +1 Selective Extra.
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Re: Portals

Postby ronyon » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:24 am

So a "real connection" modifier of +2 to allow two way attacks and sensing, available to anyone on either end.
How would shrinking the Portal be done? Controlling the size would be very useful.

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Re: Portals

Postby JDRook » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:02 pm

ronyon wrote:How would shrinking the Portal be done? Controlling the size would be very useful.

It sure would. I think that changing size and/or shape would be an aspect of Selective, although it should have some reasonable inherent limits. If you could make the portal small enough that it couldn't be easily used or spotted by your targets, it's essentially Remote Sensing, possibly with a rank of Subtle, just to perceive through it. In theory, a hole that small would be too small to see through AND attack through unless you had a eyebeam or an integrated barrel camera or something, or were using Perception Range, and that's just playing cheap IMO. In practice, I would probably set an arbitrary minimum size for functionality on the Selective portal, allowing the creator or their allies to use it similar to Cover, although it would be cover that can't be damaged or penetrated, only nullified or possibly countered depending on the descriptor.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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digitalangel
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Re: Portals

Postby digitalangel » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:15 am

I'd probably use selective as a means to control what goes through and use precise when controlling the size and shap of the opening created. Just my 2 cents


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