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Hit Point Damage System

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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Cinder » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:45 am

BARON wrote:if your players are having a hard time understanding combat without hit points, tell them to get into a real fight sometime.

"hit points", seriously?


Big fighter are you? Doubt it.

Now. Let's leave the complete insanity of debating that one imaginary system for tracking damage in a super hero game is more realistic than another.

We have implemented a system of hit points in our 2e MnM game and it has worked out great. There is no immediately apparent reason why it would not work equally well in 3e or DC. I think it is actually simpler than rolling, adding bonuses, and then figuring out how many one has failed by. The zealous criticism that a HP system gets on these boards is staggering, IMO, but I said I would drop that portion of the argument. Here is what we do. It is borrowed largely from the Mastermind's Manual.

Keep the Toughness save mechanic intact, but make it Damage DC = 10 + damage rank.

[NOTE: This could be kept 15+ damage if you want combat to take longer, but I run a more gritty game.]

A pass means no damage. A fail means a number of hit point damage based on the damage rank and a cumulative future -1 to all subsequent toughness save rolls. (Characters with Impervious Toughness do not suffer this penalty)

Damage dice are determined like this (this is the wonkiest bit, but eventually we were able to do the math quickly):

Rank 1: 1d4
Rank 2: 1d6
Rank 3: 1d8
Rank 4: 2d6
Rank 5: 3d6
Rank 6: 4d6
Rank X: (x-2)d6

Anyone who does not have a name does not get a toughness save, they just take damage. (same with minions: kind of stole this idea from Feng Shui).

A character that takes more than (Con score +10) in hit point damage in one hit is dazed for one round.

For example: Captain Awesome successfully damages Baron with a Damage 10. (That Baron is always fighting) He rolls 8d6. Captain's result is 25. Baron's Con is 14 (+2). 25 is greater than 24. Baron is dazed for one round.

This is the first instance in which using DC means making an adjustment to my system. Since stats are written as their bonus, you will have to figure out what the stun DC for each character is. Anyone with a DnD background can easily and quickly reverse engineer this number and add ten, but here is a brief chart:

-5 = 11 (1+10)
-4 = 12 (2+10)
-3 = 14 (etc.)
-2 = 16
-1 = 19
0 = 20
+1 = 22
+2 = 24
+3 = 26
+4 = 28
+5 = 30
+6 = 32
+7 = 34
+8 = 36
+9 = 38
+10 = 40

And so forth.

Hit points for a character equal (Con Bonus* + Hit Die) x Power Level.

Hit die is a d10.

*or Stamina Attribute for DC.

I have played around with having the base hit die be d6 and requiring those who wish to increase the type of die pay points for it, but d10 is what we started with, so we have kept that. I may adopt this feat in future campaigns:

IMPROVED HIT DIE RANKED, GENERAL

Characters with this Feat increase their Hit Die. Successive applications of this feat increase the Hit Die, but each progression in Hit Die requires a minimum Constitution. (See chart below)

Rank 0 - 2 > Hit die: D6 > No Minimum Constitution
Rank 3 - 5 > Hit Die: D8 > Minimum Constitution:14
Rank 6 - 8 > Hit Die: D10 > Minimum Constitution: 18
Rank 9 > Hit Die: D12 > Minimum Constitution: 22

Obviously Healing, Regen and a very few other powers change with adopting this. I have changed these. If you are still interested or even still reading by this point I can send you the document I made outlining the changes.

However, I must say that my Regen HAS NEVER BEEN TESTED beyond a few NPC villains. It may be problematic.

Recovery checks work like this:

RECOVERY

Characters reduce their subdual damage by their PL + Constitution bonus for each minute of rest on a successful recovery check. (DC 10 Constitution check) They recover their PL + Constitution bonus in hit points for each 12 hours of rest. “Regeneration” speeds up these recovery rates as usual, while a use of the Healing power allows the character to recover 1d6 hit points (or eliminate 1d6 subdual damage) per power rank. Proper medical treatment doubles recovery rates, as usual.

Characters lacking a Constitution score automatically fail recovery checks and cannot recover from damage (as they are nonliving beings). The Regeneration power applied to recovery bonus can allow such characters to make recovery checks.

[NOTE: there are now only two types of damage Lethal and Subdual (nonlethal). All attacks can be made nonlethal or lethal with no attack penalty, unless they have the lethal or nonlethal modifiers.]

That should get you started, but if you want my doc with all this in it, I can put it on mediafire.

Let me anticipate an argument: It does not take any longer than regular combat. If you are worried about it, roll your damage dice with your attack. If the opponent fails his toughness save apply the damage, if not ignore it.

Thank You for your time, I hope that I answered your question.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby kurtoogle » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:05 pm

I avoided using a hit point system initially, but my players and I really missed the satisfying feel of rolling damage, and of the excitement of randomness of damage. I didn't want to change the system much as I think DC Adventures plays out beautifully, so I simply assigned a D6 System to damage.
Toughness ranks = 1D6 of hit points. Damage ranks do 1 D6 points of damage. Healing does 1 D6 per rank + 1 condition rank. Most creatures have the advantage of a base 10 hit points beyond this, but this is largely subjective by mass, density, etc. Instead of rolling a D20 toughness check, attackers roll their D6's in Damage,and resist them by rolling their toughness in D6's. As you gain injuries, you lose your toughness DC's. Armor and protections get taken down first. PC's can go under 0 hit points as per their stamina rank before dying (not D6's). Having hit points as a supplement keeps track of how physically tough a PC is, while also accumulating
I changed wound conditions slightly, and made them automatic losses by amount of damage (1-5 hit points lost = injured, 6-10 hit points lost dazed and injured, 11-15 hit points lost = stunned, 16-20 hit points lost = incapacitated, 21+ lost = dying (one-hit massive damage).
The other addition I added to the system is ranked successes for attacks. If you beat your opponent by +5 Attack versus their dodge or parry, you gain an extra rank of success (an additional D6 of damage or a critical effect). This really rewards the PC's for skilled hits, and makes high accuracy, low weapon damage characters like crime-fighters or marital artists much more dangerous opponents that are able to achieve interesting special effects. Creating a secondary injury in a hit is a player favorite for eliminating high Toughness enemies.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby savijmuhdrox » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 pm

I really kinda like the lack of hit points in this game. I would defnlee try to get the players to give the system a go, as i totally agree with the authors' intention of removing hit points in the first place to try and recreate that comic book feel.. where heroes absorb ridiculous amount of damage and merely dust their cape off.

ultimately you gotta go with what the players want, cuz thats the real point of the whole thing.. but i wouldn't give up on it so easily..

or have Darkseid smack them around like the puny earthling they are.. and then they'll want to adopt the new rules..
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:12 pm

The other thing the hit pointless system does it removes the rather meta- "how many hit points do I have left" strategies.

If one is in a fight, one doesn't know how many more hits they can sustain. One may know, "I've been hit a lot I may not be able to go much longer" but that's it. Since all the players know is how many minuses they have to adjust, that gives them that, without giving them the "I have x Stun left" or "I have x hit points left" thing.

It really is a good 'non-damage' system.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Cinder » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:33 pm

Earth-Two_Kenn wrote:The other thing the hit pointless system does it removes the rather meta- "how many hit points do I have left" strategies.
.

Very good point, but in my system a hero with, for instance, one hp left could continue to make saves in the same way that one in the core could.

I endorse HP, because that is what my group is comfortable with. That and the fail by x = y result, is more complicated. I am not math challenged, but I have always thought that it is just more simple to say fail = damage.

To each their own.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Paragon » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:19 am

While I'm a fan of the toughness save system, as Cinder references, any meta-count issues with hit points exist in almost the same way with Hero Points (of course, that's arguably appropriate since Hero Points are a metagame conceit in most cases anyway).
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Cinder » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:06 am

Hey Paragon!

You been away a couple months?

So have I (Trying to get a D and D campaign off the ground).

Starting to get back to the boards.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Paragon » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Cinder wrote:Hey Paragon!

You been away a couple months?


I'm not (and probably won't be in the foreseeable future--I'm superheroed out) running M&M, so there's not as much motivation to keep up with the board.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby grod_the_giant » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:20 pm

As a compromise, how about rolling damage?

http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/4 ... mage-roll/

I've recently started using it because I got tired of doing the math/consulting the table for Toughness checks. It keeps the "the more you hurt the easier you are to hurt" feel, without losing the "normal" act of rolling damage die. As a side-benefit, my (highly subjective) feeling is that it speeds up combat and makes it feel more satisfying, as it gives everyone a good idea of how hard the hit they just dealt out/took was.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Paragon » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:34 pm

The downside of that--if you view it as a downside--is that it makes the use of Hero Points more offensive, since they can be applied to the damage roll. Given how the Improve Roll works, that's probably quite worrisome.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby saint_matthew » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:20 am

savijmuhdrox wrote:I really kinda like the lack of hit points in this game.


Me too. The lack of Hit Points is right up there with a lack of a mechanical alignment system for me, as advantages of the system.
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Re: Hit Point Damage System

Postby Tommiec21 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:59 pm

The way I did it was Kinda Simple and very one sided.

Player HP= 10+ Stamina+Fort
NPC HP= Whatever i deem Reasonable for a fight.
So I usually Stat Superman and Wonder Woman at at least a 60-80 HP, and Batman (and Batman Type Characters) at 30-40 HP.

The Damage system works well since I Do some funky math and work out players Base Atk Damage with all their different Powers and stunts.

But with base Stat Attacks such as Punches and stuff it just works
So if WW punches supes and he cant defend due to bad Roll She Smacks him with 16 HP Damage unarmed
compared to Batmans Unarmed Punch which does only 4
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