Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Discuss Lone Wolf's Hero Lab, the official licensed Mutants & Masterminds superhero creation and advancement tool.
Hexamony
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Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Postby Hexamony » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:04 pm

I'm not new to super-hero gaming, but I am new to Mutants & Masterminds 2nd. As practice for creating characters I'm taking published heroes and working them into Hero Lab. However, I'm running into a few problems.

Since I'm going to run a Paragon campaign, I started with the heroes from 'A More Perfect Union'. After the initial learning curve, I managed to get three of them to validate while the rest throw errors.

Let's start with the biggest headscratcher. Ben Vistan's Swarm-Shape. This was confusing, yet fun, to figure out. However, I can not seem to apply the Flaw: Duration to the Super-Senses aspect of the swarm-shape. Hero Lab flat out refuses to do it. Am I missing an option somewhere? All it says is 'This Power Flaw may not be taken for this power'. I saw old threads on it, and thought it was fixed.

It's off-topic for a Hero Lab question, but how was the lower DC calculated for the Nauseate attack when he's using Anatomic Separation?

My other problem is with Sean Macklin and Randy "Buzz" Buczinski. Both of them are 1PP over 90, and both of them for their powers.

Many thanks for any insights into these problems.
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Re: Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:40 pm

Sometimes, there are errors in the published profiles. That said, I suspect that the issue you're facing with the super-senses is the in 2E, Alternate Forms had to contain all Sustained powers. Ultimate Powers changed it so that it just became a matter of that the form itself was Sustained. Ultimate Powers also, as I recall, made the clarification that Sustained Super-Senses wasn't really worth a cost break. So really, the bug is that they included one clarification from UP, but not the other. If you have the Ultimate Powers package (which includes every other book that's come out), activate it and I think your problems go away. It might be worth bringing up in the Lone Wolf forum for M&M and Hero Lab.

As regards Anatomic Separation, it's a messy power. It's effectively a Summon of sorts, but doesn't require the user to buy up a certain number of ranks for the power points in the part. It's generally up to the GM to decide how it works. In this case, they probably figured that a portion wouldn't have as much "stinging power" as the whole body.

Macklin comes out fine for me. 8 pp for 4 ranks of Flight, 20 pp for his Telekinesis [(2+1) * 6 + 1 + 1], plus 1 pp for Deflect (slow projectiles, Move Action) as an AP to his Telekinesis. That comes out to 29. Buzz similarly comes out fine with a base effect of 12 pp (Move Object, Perception Range, Limited to Fire) and 3 APs, then 10 pp of Immunity for a total of 25. I suspect that you're probably adding an extra AP on top of the base ability (in both cases, they use a particular power as the base and then describe it in one of the bullet poitns below).

In general, checking out the Errata forum isn't a bad place to go when you have errors. There's a topic for the main Paragons book, but I don't think anyone did the adventure.

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Re: Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Postby Hexamony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:41 pm

Thanks for the feedback, FuzzyBoots. I did manage to find an old forum post from 2008 about how Ultimate Power did clarify Super-Senses as always Permanent. However, I only have the M&M Core package for Hero Lab, so it's a little silly I'm plagued with an error from a book I didn't buy the package for, yet. (As a new GM, despite owning UP, trying to keep things light with my new group. We're all new to M&M, and I'm the most excited about it.) Once we're more familiar with M&M, and I have the spare funds, I'll be getting the Ultimate Power package for Hero Lab.

In the meantime, I had a hunch I might have built those two Heroes wrong, but I can't wrap my head around how. I had a player decide to use the pyrokinetic as inspiration for his hero, so suddenly important I figure out what I need to change.

Is Buzz built with Telekinesis or Element Control? I do have him built with four APs in Element Control. [Blast 4, Blast 6, Nullify, and Move Object (Fire Only)].

With Sean, I started with Telekinesis but added a Telekinesis AP with Extra: Damaging. It's entirely possible I misread the flavor text. (I didn't even pick up the Flaw-Limit: Slow Projectiles for Deflect, glad you pointed that out.)

I'm not surprised no one else has discussed the errors with the adventure Heroes, I certainly do things my own, odd way. :)
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Re: Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:05 pm

Part of the problem is that the powers are written up using the Array structure from Ultimate Power, i.e. instead of everything being built off of a base power, there's a structure paid for which then has one free base power and then a bunch of 1 pp Alternate Powers, all mixed in.

According to how they wrote it up, Buzz has Telekinesis, extended to Perception range and Limited to Fire, which is the same thing as Elemental Control (Fire). Macklin does not have damaging telekinesis. He has to use a Move action to pick something up and then a Standard to throw it.

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Re: Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Postby Hexamony » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:58 pm

I haven't read much of Ultimate Power since I'm not using it. I have noticed frequent mentions to Arrays, Variables, and something else. Are you saying they wrote up the Heroes as if using Arrays, but it's not how to build them?

Ahh. How is it calculated that Malkin has +6 to Damage when using Telekinesis? I assumed it was Extra: Damaging.

I'll rebuild Buzz using Telekinesis as the base power modified to act like Fire Control. It seems a strange, roundabout way to do something.
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Re: Learning Hero Lab with Published Heroes - Errors

Postby FuzzyBoots » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:56 am

Hexamony wrote:I haven't read much of Ultimate Power since I'm not using it. I have noticed frequent mentions to Arrays, Variables, and something else. Are you saying they wrote up the Heroes as if using Arrays, but it's not how to build them?

It's a perfectly valid way to build them, but it requires you to understand that they folded the base power into the rest of them.

Delemental has a good explanation of how the Array structure works here but the simple version is that instead listing the power as a base power followed by APs, you build it as the array structure with multiple powers, including the base power. So, in Core, you might have the following:

Flight 9 [18 pp]
. . AP: Blast 9 [1 pp]
. . AP: Blast 6 (Burst Area) [1 pp]

With an array structure:
Array 9 [18 pp]
. . BP: Flight 9 [free base power]
. . AP: Blast 9 [1 pp]
. . AP: Blast 6 (Burst Area) [1 pp]

Same cost, but it's organized differently. There's also some aspects of being able to apply Extras and Flaws to the array structure. One advantage of it is that if you have one power which has more pp in it than the others, you don't necessarily have to make that power your default base power.

Containers are basically Alternate Form or Device, paying 5 pp / rank which can be used for 5 pp of stuff (Device has a -1 or -2 Flaw on the Container for Hard-to-Lose and Easy-to-Lose respectively). Variable is things like Shakeshift, letting you pay X points / rank for the ability to reallocate 5 pp / rank as an action. :) It's mainly clarification of how they built things.

Incidentally, I highly recommend Elric's thread (it's also pinned at the top of the 2E Rules Forum). He's compiled a bunch of official answers to common questions.


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