Find a new software devloper.

Discuss Lone Wolf's Hero Lab, the official licensed Mutants & Masterminds superhero creation and advancement tool.
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krypt0nian
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby krypt0nian » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:38 am

cobalt-blue wrote:Sorry, it's not hyperbole. The whole license concept is based on the precept that each and every one of their customers is a thief. And my friends know that even if they decide to not heed my advice, it's no skin off my teeth. I'm not screwing them out of anything, but possibly saving them from a serious hassle.



DRM is not based on labeling one's customers as thieves. That's patently wrong. Licensing is a common practice.

You had a rare occurrence. Making more of it when you tell your friends is screwing them out of not only the truth, but potentially an excellent tool for a number of RPGs. You're misrepresenting the situation which in my book is tantamount to lying to your friends.

You can try and rep your situation otherwise but it's not based in anything but anger.
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby cobalt-blue » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:54 am

Sorry, just because it's common doesn't mean that it's not true. The only reason for licensing is to prevent software pirating. In this case, their attempt to keep people from pirating made the software I bought and paid for unavailable to me for a long weekend of gaming. As a customer, I find that to be unacceptable. I work hard for my money and when I spend it on a product, I expect that product to be available to me. It was not. I guess, I'm less willing to be a sheeple than most customers. I don't buy from Best Buy anymore for the same reason. I don't like being treated like a thief.

I'm not trying to rep my situation. I've never claimed to be a nice man. My situation stands as it is. I won't recommend the program to friends and will actively warn them against it because of this situation. You don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to. Like you, my friends are free to take my advice or not. That's the nice tabout being a thinking person.

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby krypt0nian » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:09 am

cobalt-blue wrote:Sorry, just because it's common doesn't mean that it's not true. The only reason for licensing is to prevent software pirating. In this case, their attempt to keep people from pirating made the software I bought and paid for unavailable to me for a long weekend of gaming. As a customer, I find that to be unacceptable. I work hard for my money and when I spend it on a product, I expect that product to be available to me. It was not. I guess, I'm less willing to be a sheeple than most customers. I don't buy from Best Buy anymore for the same reason. I don't like being treated like a thief.

I'm not trying to rep my situation. I've never claimed to be a nice man. My situation stands as it is. I won't recommend the program to friends and will actively warn them against it because of this situation. You don't like it, that's fine, you don't have to. Like you, my friends are free to take my advice or not. That's the nice tabout being a thinking person.



Hopefully they see your rants as unreasonable. Anyone who uses the word sheeple shouldn't be heeded.
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby The One Phil » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:50 pm

I've used HeroLab across 4 PCs and at least one OS update by moving the licence and had no problems whatsoever (except for my lament that they still don't do a MacOS version).

Not meaning to present a radical idea, but how about you allow your friends to be more than "sheeple" and point them at this thread so they can get your advice, as well as other viewpoints and make up their minds from there.

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:21 pm

Why should I advertise for a company that hasn't been a good experience for me? They haven't earned the money I spent on the software much less any recommendations.

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby krypt0nian » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:35 pm

cobalt-blue wrote:Why should I advertise for a company that hasn't been a good experience for me? They haven't earned the money I spent on the software much less any recommendations.


You're using your one bad (and rare) experience to lie about it to your "friends"

It's pitiful.
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:42 pm

I am not lying. I'm telling them about my experience. I. AM. NOT. A. LIAR.

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby krypt0nian » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:55 pm

cobalt-blue wrote:I am not lying. I'm telling them about my experience. I. AM. NOT. A. LIAR.


Did you tell them it's a rare occurrence or simply tell them not to buy it based on your rare problem?

Because if you suggest that the software is universally bugged, or imply that they are going to have your issue you are lying.

It's like telling them not to buy peanuts because you choked on one.
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:12 pm

No, it's telling them about my experience simple as that; and it's truthful. I am under no obligation to mitigate their side of the situation. I spent a three day weekend without access to a product for which I paid. I find that unacceptable.

Perhaps I simply have higher standards on how my money is spent than you. I wonder why you are so concerned that I bend over backward and accept bad service and a substandard product for which I paid my hard earned money to the point that you stoop to personal attacks.

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby krypt0nian » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:31 pm

Wow you're simply unreasonable. You'd rather deny a great resource from your friends than present the truth.


1) It is not a substandard product. You encountered a bug.

2) There are no personal attacks. Calling you out on lies is a fact. You are lying by omission. It's fine to tell your friends your impressions, but don't pretend it's something that should ward them away when it's a rare bug.

I wish I could contact your friends and let them know of your machinations.
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:42 pm

Really? Are you really THAT ignorant of business models that you demand a customer who has a negative experience with a product when discussing it with friends should present the points of view of people who disagree with him? If this is the way the company does business then I don't suspect it will be IN business much longer. Do you also realize that your personal attacks simply make my experience with this product THAT MUCH MORE NEGATIVE?

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby krypt0nian » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:53 pm

cobalt-blue wrote:Really? Are you really THAT ignorant of business models that you demand a customer who has a negative experience with a product when discussing it with friends should present the points of view of people who disagree with him? If this is the way the company does business then I don't suspect it will be IN business much longer. Do you also realize that your personal attacks simply make my experience with this product THAT MUCH MORE NEGATIVE?



No, I expect someone that experiences a bug present it as that since that's the fact.

There are no personal attacks. Calling you out on lies is a fact. You are lying by omission. It's fine to tell your friends your impressions, but don't pretend it's something that should ward them away when it's a rare bug.

You are spinning so out of control that you see things as personal attacks now.
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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby cobalt-blue » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:08 pm

No, you're taking it personally that I am majorly dissatisfied with what is evidently your pet product that I warn my friends away from it. I've had enough trouble out of this whole license idea over the last several months that I don't consider it a rare bug. I AM NOT SATISFIED WITH EITHER THE PRODUCT OR RESPONSE TIME IN RESOLVING IT. I'm not satisfied that I've had issues dealing with the license of this product since I returned from South Korea in February. You seem to think that I am somehow obliged to mitigate my dissatisfaction by presenting an opposing point of view and have sunk to calling me a liar. Why are you so offended by my opinion of this product? Are you an employee?

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:29 pm

He's not. I know the employees of Lone Wolf and he's not one of them.

I think mainly it's the confrontational way the debate's been going. I don't think any of us think the either is a liar. You have had problems and you're dissatisfied with the product. Kryptonian is trying to express that he thinks that you're an exceptional case and that you're generalizing this due to your dislike of DRM.

Honestly, DRM does essentially come from the idea that most of your customers are potential criminals. Sadly, as noted before, Lone Wolf has empirical proof from before they moved to a DRM scheme that a good number of players out there will pirate the software if they can. Adding DRM actually gained them sales. Either a very large amount of customers suddenly found their product, or a number of people who'd been getting the software for free decided it was worth paying for once they had to.

Ultimately, I think both sides of the argument could do to step away for a bit and cool off.

By the by, Cobalt, have you worked with support at all on what you've done and how it's caused problems? I know Colen and I have gone back and forth a number of times on a particular bug to iron out exactly how it happened and how to prevent it.

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Re: Find a new software devloper.

Postby Paragon » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:09 pm

cobalt-blue wrote:No, you're taking it personally that I am majorly dissatisfied with what is evidently your pet product that I warn my friends away from it. I've had enough


Warning people away from a product that you've had a bad experience with without mentioning that others have mentioned your experience is uncommon is lying by omission. its implying your problem is liable to be theirs when, in fact, you have no evidence of that and actual evidence to the contrary.

By all evidence you dislike the DRM and are ticked off enough about that you're using it as an excuse to malign a product that has, on the whole, served the majority of users rather well. If you don't see the ethical problem with that, I don't know what to tell you.

Edit: and note this is coming from someone who's no fan of DRM including HeroLab's. I just don't think overstating the situation by implication is an appropriate response to that.
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