Boost is an attack now?

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Drascin
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Boost is an attack now?

Postby Drascin » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:37 am

So I was building a few characters in HeroLab to acquaint myself with it. Most give no problems, but when I got to my buffing sorceress there was a problem with one of her powers.

The idea was a spell that would enhance the resilience of nearby allies - classic fantasy staple. So I had built a Boost, added Area to it, and then picked the Selective feat to make it affect only allies - as a purely nonoffensive power, it would seem eligible for the Selective power feat. But HeroLab says Boost is an attack and so I'd need to buy Selective as an extra, which points plain don't allow. Am I missing something in the rules interactions, or is this a small oversight in the program?

EDIT: On continuing the character, I find the same problem with adding Area and Selective to a Healing effect for a Mass Heal effect. I wonder, HeroLab, just what is a valid effect for Selective with you? :P

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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Woodclaw » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:58 am

Both Boost and Healing has a saving throw, so for the purpose of Herolab they are considered attacks (or rather attack-like effects). I agree that is a bit strange.
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Drascin
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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Drascin » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:09 am

Woodclaw wrote:Both Boost and Healing has a saving throw, so for the purpose of Herolab they are considered attacks (or rather attack-like effects). I agree that is a bit strange.


I can about see Healing, since it does force the character receiving it to make a Toughness save to heal... but Boost has a save? Now that is news to me. Well, okay, technically if you were to boost an enemy they could get a ST, but... why would you be boosting an enemy, again? :D

In any case, I guess I'll have to simply add it as a custom power feat...

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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby roguescribner » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:15 am

Ultimate Power states:

If the power requires an attack roll or allows a saving throw, then Selective is an extra instead of a power feat (see the Selective Attack extra).


In UP, both Boost and Healing list saving throws. The Core book doesn't.

If you disable UP in HeroLab you can use the Selective power feat instead of the extra. Or go down into the drawback list for the powers and choose "Core Rules" and it'll allow you to use the pf.
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Drascin
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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Drascin » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:16 am

I see. Why Healing and Boost would be given saving throws, I can't fathom, and had never noticed that up to now despite owning UP - but that does indeed work, so thanks!

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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Ebonheart » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:57 am

There is certainly potential for using each aggressively:

Boost- could be used to increase the rank of a power (e.g. Flight) to the point where the user can no longer successfully make the Concentration check if they are stunned.

Healing- it's a reasonably common trope that undead can be hurt by healing. Also, with healing I'm inclined to say that an Area Heal that only effects your allies is sufficiently better than an Area Heal that effects everybody that it deserves to be an Extra in this case.

Chris

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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Drascin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:05 am

Ebonheart wrote:There is certainly potential for using each aggressively:

Boost- could be used to increase the rank of a power (e.g. Flight) to the point where the user can no longer successfully make the Concentration check if they are stunned.

Healing- it's a reasonably common trope that undead can be hurt by healing. Also, with healing I'm inclined to say that an Area Heal that only effects your allies is sufficiently better than an Area Heal that effects everybody that it deserves to be an Extra in this case.

Chris


Honestly? The first thing you mention is so incredibly narrow that practically nobody will ever really use it - not least because, to follow your own example, if you fail to stun the villain on the very next attack, you just kinda gave him the means to get away at absurd speed if you've boosted his Flight high enough that he has a decent chance of failing the check - which might get you into a bit of trouble with the rest of the superteam :P. Forcing boosters to pay through the nose to get Area boosts because you can't pick Selective and boosting your enemies is generally suicidal (well, you can pick Selective, but at a rather prohibitive price, especially if you want any kind of halfway decent Boost. And Boost already isn't exactly wonderful in M&M basic unless you cheese it by giving people powers they never had) simply because of such a farfetched chance strikes me as a tad overparanoid, no offense.

And the second - well, you could think so, every GM is his own world, after all. But every GM I've met has ruled that you had to stunt a damage power off Healing or have the Attack extra to actually hurt undead.

Area heals CAN be very good, though, I can't deny that. Perhaps good enough to merit extra cost.

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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Gothenem » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:06 pm

In my campaigns an area boost or area heal that is not selective affects everyone, friend and foe alike. After all, that's what the area extra does. Just like and Area Damage or and Area Confuse, it needs to be made selective to only affect certain ppl.

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Re: Boost is an attack now?

Postby Ebonheart » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:15 am

As for the Boost thing - you don't need to make the Concentration check until your action, so you could do it as a response to somebody else stunning the opponent. Imagine doing it on somebody whose Toughness was solely powered by a Force Field - stunned and suddenly, they don't only lose half of their defence, but also all of their Toughness. I can certainly see potential there, especially if it is short duration Boost (couple of rounds or so).

I'm not saying I agree with the ruling - just giving examples of how they could be used aggressively, and therefore why they allow a Saving Throw. The fact that I can envisage ways they could be used where the target would want to resist, means that the target should be able to resist.

The Boost thing also comes under the same caveat as the Healing thing though - I think that being able to choose not to use an Area Boost on your enemies is good enough that its worth the Extra, rather than just a Feat.

But your game is your game - I'm not going to be particularly agrieved if you don't agree with me. Just suggesting things that you may not have considered.

Chris


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