Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

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Drakos
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Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Drakos » Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:36 pm

I am having a problem with how arrays are determining the avaliable points for alternate powers.

When you buy an array it is 2pp/r and you get 2pp/rank to for the alternate powers. This works fine but when I put a flaw on the array reducing it to 1pp/r it also reduces the maximum allowed PP for an alternate power to 1pp/r (or rather the pp avaliable to use in Dynamic powers).

So here is an example of what I mean:

Array 10 (electricity, default power: blast)
- Blast 5 (Default; electricity, DC 20)
- Dazzle 5 (Array; vision, DC 15)
- Force Field 5 [Dyn: 1/r, max 20PP] (Array; +5 Toughness)
- Regeneration 10 [Dyn: 1/r, max 20PP] (Array; Various Bonuses, DC 20)
- Absorption 10 [Dyn: 1/2r, max 20PP] (Array; energy, boost; Limited [Energy Type (Electricity)], Personal, Restorative)
-Energy Aura 5[Dyn: 4/r, max 20PP] (Array; DC 20)

All the dynamic powers list 'max 20PP' which is correct because the array 10 provides 20pp. Now when I apply a flaw it changes to look like:

Array 10 (electricity, default power: blast; Fades (Recharge / Rest))
- Blast 5 (Default; electricity, DC 20)
- Dazzle 5 (Array; vision, DC 15)
- Force Field 5 [Dyn: 1/r, max 10PP] (Array; +5 Toughness)
- Regeneration 10 [Dyn: 1/r, max 10PP] (Array; Various Bonuses, DC 20)
- Absorption 10 [Dyn: 1/2r, max 10PP] (Array; energy, boost; Limited [Energy Type (Electricity)], Personal, Restorative)
- Energy Aura 5 [Dyn: 4/r, max 10PP] (Array; DC 20)

Now all the dynamic powers list 'max 10PP' but they should still be 20PP because the avaliable points to alternate powers shouldn't have dropped.

The example on page 110 of the Ultimate Power book shows this:
Example: All the Alternate Powers of an Array have the Tiring flaw. The GM may permit the application of Tiring to the Array itself, reducing its cost to 1 point per rank (1 power point per 2 points in the Array). The Array’s effects are acquired at their normal cost, without the Tiring flaw, but the flaw applies equally to all of them, since it is applied to the Array overall.
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Woodclaw
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Woodclaw » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:11 pm

I thought this was fixed with the last update. And on my copy it works properly

Maybe you need to update your own datafiles.
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Drakos
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Drakos » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:40 pm

Woodclaw wrote:I thought this was fixed with the last update. And on my copy it works properly

Maybe you need to update your own datafiles.


Well, according to my Hero Lab, I have the most recent version and it is still happening to me. I even just created the character so it isn't an old portfolio issue.
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Woodclaw » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:56 am

Drakos wrote:
Woodclaw wrote:I thought this was fixed with the last update. And on my copy it works properly

Maybe you need to update your own datafiles.


Well, according to my Hero Lab, I have the most recent version and it is still happening to me. I even just created the character so it isn't an old portfolio issue.


There is another possibility. Under the House rules section there is a option called "Array powers follow parent cost", if the box is checked it will bring you back to the old system. Maybe you've checked it without noticing.
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Drakos
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Drakos » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:44 pm

Woodclaw wrote:There is another possibility. Under the House rules section there is a option called "Array powers follow parent cost", if the box is checked it will bring you back to the old system. Maybe you've checked it without noticing.


Yeah, I checked that and it isn't selected. The nice thing is the powers that go over the reduced amount are not causing a validation error they are just displaying and printing wrong. It's anoying but I can work with it. I'm more concerned that this is supposed to be fixed but doesn't seem to be. The last update mine shows is 11/30/09.

I even started fresh with a new clean ortfolio and it is still displaying wrong.
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Colen
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Colen » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:43 am

I can't reproduce this bug. Can you please email me a saved portfolio that demonstrates the problem to colen@wolflair.com ? That way I can look at exactly the array you're having problems with, without trying to rebuild it exactly myself.

Thanks
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Drakos » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:15 pm

Colen wrote:I can't reproduce this bug. Can you please email me a saved portfolio that demonstrates the problem to colen@wolflair.com ? That way I can look at exactly the array you're having problems with, without trying to rebuild it exactly myself.

Thanks


Did you get the file I sent you?
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby CourtFool » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:57 pm

I ran into this last night. I could not get Magic to work the way I thought it should, so I used Array. Apparently I am wrong and Magic was working just fine.

So…if you put a Flaw on the Array, it affects all of the Powers within the Array, correct? Why can you buy the Flaw again on each individual Power within the Array?
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Colen
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Colen » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:07 pm

Drakos: I got the email, thank you. I've been scrambling with other stuff and haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet, sorry :(

[quote=Courtfool]So…if you put a Flaw on the Array, it affects all of the Powers within the Array, correct?[/quote]

Correct.

[quote=Courtfool]Why can you buy the Flaw again on each individual Power within the Array?[/quote]

Sometimes you want to the Flaw on every power in the array, and sometimes you only want to buy it for a few of the powers in the array. I guess theoretically you could buy it for both if you wanted, but it would probably not be legal - it would also be hard for us to check for, so we don't worry about it.
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby roguescribner » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:22 am

Yeah, double-dipping flaws, etc. is not legal. But I don't think HeroLab needs to have code to prevent it. Players should just know not to do it and GMs should know to look for it and get it fixed before the game starts.
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby CourtFool » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:39 am

That is something I need to remember. I frequently use Hero Lab to check my understanding of the rules.
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Re: Array with Flaws & Alternate powers

Postby Drakos » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:17 pm

I can verify that the most recent patch has corrected the issue. Thank you very much.
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