Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

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Barrowstone
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Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby Barrowstone » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:53 am

I could use some clarification concerning how to apply Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength.

Let's say I want a (corporeal) character with Strength 20 (+5) to be able to use her full strength against ghosts (or whatever); It appears that I would add the power "(Strength Bonus) Strike" with "Power Feat: Affects Insubstantial 2." This costs 2 points.

In this example do I only need to buy 1 rank of "(Strength Bonus) Strike?"

On a related topic, if I wanted to add an Extra, e.g. Autofire, to the same character's strength, how many ranks would I have to buy?

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JDRook
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Postby JDRook » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:51 am

(Strength Bonus) Strike is basically a holder for modifiers to Strength attacks. Since you are only using it to add a Feat, the rank doesn't really matter, at least in terms of cost.

You can see this in HL using your power as an example: the rank cost of (SB)S with Affects Insubstantial Feat is 0 pp/rank, so rank is immaterial. (No pun intended.) So to answer your first question directly: Yes, you only need to buy 1 rank of "(Strength Bonus) Strike," but since the (SB)S ranks are zero cost the 1 doesn't really matter.

Now for an Extra like Autofire, the cost would be rank dependent, and to get the full benefit of Str 20, or +5 bonus, you would need 5 ranks of (SB)S for 5pp. If you had both the AI Feat and the Auto Extra on your Str 20 character, it would cost 7pp.

Costwise, it's all exactly the same as if you were buying the same modifiers for a Blast or most other attacks powers. Strength is just a little tricky in terms of the paperwork because it's an ability and not a power per se, so (SB)S was set up to allow you to modify it like a power without having to buy it as Enhanced Strength, which works similarly but doesn't fit all concepts.

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Postby Barrowstone » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:09 am

JDRook:

Thank you - I now understand.

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby zeone3000 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:32 pm

Yes, thank you ever so much. Just made my day!
]My first fanfic - Log of the Grinning Shadow - Chapter four is now up! Enjoy!

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby JDRook » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:21 pm

LOL! I just saw this now and thought I'd gone nuts, since I couldn't remember writing that and know I couldn't have written it this morning. I finally realized I wrote it exactly a year ago. :lol:
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby zeone3000 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:33 pm

Wow, coincidence? I think not.
]My first fanfic - Log of the Grinning Shadow - Chapter four is now up! Enjoy!

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Re:

Postby Colen » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:01 pm

JDRook wrote:... the rank cost of (SB)S with Affects Insubstantial Feat is 0 pp/rank, so rank is immaterial. (No pun intended.)


10/10, this stood the test of time ;)
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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby zeone3000 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:33 pm

Question, what if your Strength modifier is negative?
]My first fanfic - Log of the Grinning Shadow - Chapter four is now up! Enjoy!

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby JDRook » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:55 pm

zeone3000 wrote:Question, what if your Strength modifier is negative?


That's an interesting question. A negative STR modifier can still allow you to do damage with a good roll, and it is easy to forget that.

Technically speaking, Feats (and Drawbacks, for that matter) should still cost the same, since they aren't connected to the rank of the power they modify.

Extras and Flaws are another can of worms. There doesn't seem to be any strict rule regarding such a case, and trying to apply the math would be too problematic and potentially abusive, so I think it would really depend on:

a) your concept that requires an underaverage STR with a speical modifier and
b) selling the concept to your GM

because it seems like something that wouldn't come up often.

As a baseline, I would suggest applying the Extras or Flaws as a 1-rank cost in all cases where the rank is less than 1, which means they're all worth 1pp, the minimum cost for significant change in function to a power, but this might be adjusted to less in some special cases as per the GM.

So to use the "ghost boxer" character again as an example, if she only had STR 8 and therefore a damage bonus of -1, her Affects Insubstantial Feat would still cost 2pp, and the Autofire extra would cost 1. If I were GMing this character, though, I'd probably allow the AI feat to cost 1pp for the full effect, partly to avoid the negative halving of ranks and partly because the difference in game effect would be negligible. I would likely allow a similar ruling for applying the Autofire extra again, since many of the effects of Autofire are based on power rank. (I'd have to house-rule something for bonuses, multiple targets, etc.) Then again, if she also had relatively easy access to some kind of STR Boost effect (her own or another player's) I probably wouldn't allow those cost breaks.

As you can see, it can get complicated (and I haven't even bothered with something like Power Attack :P ). So again, I would recommend the 1-rank baseline, which will fit most situations and is also easy to put in HeroLab.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby FuzzyBoots » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:51 am

JDRook wrote:So to use the "ghost boxer" character again as an example, if she only had STR 8 and therefore a damage bonus of -1, her Affects Insubstantial Feat would still cost 2pp, and the Autofire extra would cost 1. If I were GMing this character, though, I'd probably allow the AI feat to cost 1pp for the full effect, partly to avoid the negative halving of ranks and partly because the difference in game effect would be negligible. I would likely allow a similar ruling for applying the Autofire extra again, since many of the effects of Autofire are based on power rank. (I'd have to house-rule something for bonuses, multiple targets, etc.) Then again, if she also had relatively easy access to some kind of STR Boost effect (her own or another player's) I probably wouldn't allow those cost breaks.

^_^ Well, except for little things like that the only thing she could use the Autofire for is doing a spread of fire, covering actions, etc since the Autofire damage bonus correlates to your regular damage bonus. But yeah, someone with, say, Affects Corporeal would indeed have a special case. And, of course, No Save creates some bizarre effects...

By the by, why would Affects Insubstantial ever cost more than 1 pp? Wasn't it 1E where feats cost 2 pp each?

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby Paragon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:40 pm

FuzzyBoots wrote:
JDRook wrote:So to use the "ghost boxer" character again as an example, if she only had STR 8 and therefore a damage bonus of -1, her Affects Insubstantial Feat would still cost 2pp, and the Autofire extra would cost 1. If I were GMing this character, though, I'd probably allow the AI feat to cost 1pp for the full effect, partly to avoid the negative halving of ranks and partly because the difference in game effect would be negligible. I would likely allow a similar ruling for applying the Autofire extra again, since many of the effects of Autofire are based on power rank. (I'd have to house-rule something for bonuses, multiple targets, etc.) Then again, if she also had relatively easy access to some kind of STR Boost effect (her own or another player's) I probably wouldn't allow those cost breaks.

^_^ Well, except for little things like that the only thing she could use the Autofire for is doing a spread of fire, covering actions, etc since the Autofire damage bonus correlates to your regular damage bonus. But yeah, someone with, say, Affects Corporeal would indeed have a special case. And, of course, No Save creates some bizarre effects...



Its hard to see how these are any worse than applying it to someone with a +1 damage bonus, so I'd just treat them as one point cost adds and move on.


By the by, why would Affects Insubstantial ever cost more than 1 pp? Wasn't it 1E where feats cost 2 pp each?


Its a ranked feat; 1 point gives you half damage, 2 points full.
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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby FuzzyBoots » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:01 pm

Paragon wrote:Its a ranked feat; 1 point gives you half damage, 2 points full.

*facepalm* I somehow missed that one some time back. Oh well, every day is a learning experience.

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Re: Applying Power Feats and/or Extras to Strength

Postby FuzzyBoots » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:01 pm

Paragon wrote:Its a ranked feat; 1 point gives you half damage, 2 points full.

*facepalm* I somehow missed that one some time back. Oh well, every day is a learning experience.


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