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Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Discuss Lone Wolf's Hero Lab, the official licensed Mutants & Masterminds superhero creation and advancement tool.

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Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Postby Superguy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:48 pm

According to the rulebook, the Area extra for Luck Control is supposed to allow you to use this Perception range power on everyone you can perceive, all at the same time. Hero Lab doesn't take this into account, at least as far as I can tell. You only get to select from the various area options which specify a range to the area of effect.

Did I miss something? Is there a workaround?
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Re: Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Postby FuzzyBoots » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:41 am

Superguy wrote:According to the rulebook, the Area extra for Luck Control is supposed to allow you to use this Perception range power on everyone you can perceive, all at the same time. Hero Lab doesn't take this into account, at least as far as I can tell. You only get to select from the various area options which specify a range to the area of effect.

Did I miss something? Is there a workaround?

Range and Area work somewhat independently. Range indicates where you can place the power and Area indicates how large of an area you can affect. Perception Range means you can center the effect anywhere you can perceive. At least in 2E, it also includes the one interaction between Range and Area. Perception-range area effects don't give a Reflex save, and you can choose whether they affect everyone in the area they land in who lacks cover or everyone who you can perceive within that area (think of the difference between being able to trigger an explosion at any given point — which means that a dumpster would provide cover — or a mental sphere of fear — where it wouldn't affect people you're unaware of, but penetrates cover. That's essentially the difference between a regular and a targeted area in that case.

There is also a Perception Area, which can be paired with Perception range, but I don't get the impression that that's what you're looking for.
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Re: Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Postby Superguy » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:42 am

Yeah, I think I have a handle on the various permutations of Range and Area (stress on the "I think" part). I'm just saying that the the Area extra listed under the Luck Control Power has the specific function of allowing you to use a single Hero Point to affect everyone within YOUR Perception with Luck Control.

When you try to do this in Hero Lab, the only choices the program gives you are the various shapes for Area (cloud, burst, cone, etc.). The only Perception Area option the program allows in this instance is for effects the TARGET perceives, rather than the attacker. It's an overlooked detail that needs to be corrected.

I worked around it with a Custom extra but I thought I'd bring it up so the issue can be resolved in an update of the program.
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Re: Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:00 am

Ah. Neither the regular book or Ultimate Power for 2E nor the core book for 3E specify that Area on Luck Control works that way as best I can tell. The effect starts at Perception range and the description of Area states that it affects all targets in the area. The Perception range lets you center the area wherever you can perceive and the Perception area makes it so that it affects anyone who can perceive with a given sense the target of the power. If you want to make it a "everyone who can see me gets the effect of this", take a -2 Flaw to reduce the range to Touch and then apply the Perception Area. Choose a sense. Targets get a Reflex save (which they can choose to skip) and don't get affected by it if they can't perceive you via that sense. Oh, and if this is 2E, Area (Perception) got introduced in Ultimate Power, so you'd either have to have that expansion, add a Custom Extra to emulate Area (Perception), or add it via the editor.

:) Does that make any sense?
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Re: Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Postby Superguy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:37 am

Sorry. Forgot to reply to this.

FuzzyBoots wrote:Ah. Neither the regular book or Ultimate Power for 2E nor the core book for 3E specify that Area on Luck Control works that way as best I can tell.


M&M Core Rules, p. 116:

Area: Your Luck Control effect works equally on all targets in the affected area. You spend only one hero point, but the subjects are each affected individually. You must apply the same effect to all subjects at once. +1 cost per rank.

All I'm saying is that HeroLab doesn't include this extra. It only lets you use the Area modifiers listed on p.138-9 of the Core Rules, which work a little differently.
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Re: Issue with Luck Control Area extra

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:41 am

Superguy wrote:M&M Core Rules, p. 116:

Area: Your Luck Control effect works equally on all targets in the affected area. You spend only one hero point, but the subjects are each affected individually. You must apply the same effect to all subjects at once. +1 cost per rank.

All I'm saying is that HeroLab doesn't include this extra. It only lets you use the Area modifiers listed on p.138-9 of the Core Rules, which work a little differently.

I think we may just have a difference of interpretation. As with other sections where Area is mentioned with an Extra, you have to choose which Area option to use. The rest is just a clarification that a) only one hero point is expended no matter how many are affected and b) all targets have the same effect. Essentially, there is no difference from that and an application of Area to a Perception Damage effect where we automatically assume that everyone within the area (which we need to specify what sort of Area to use) is affected the same, and we don't have to pay anything extra to affect everyone in the area.
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