2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby kenseido » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:19 am

I agree with Penny. Player interactions are best guided by OOC discussions and not just chance.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby baixiwei » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:36 am

Well, I guess we are all in agreement that the interactions are not best guided by chance.

Where I do not really agree is that they are best left to the players. That is one way you could do it, but certainly not the only way. As I've pointed out, a different way is for the GM to create scenes with the specific purpose of giving players a reason to interact with each other in a non-combat setting.

I do take the point that it might not be desirable for the GM to encourage specific interactions between specific PCs, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about creating situations where players are not merely FREE to interact, but actually have a REASON to do so - an in-game reason, that is.

I am missing why Ken & Penny do not think this is a good idea. It is not exclusive with your idea of players initiating specific interactions OOC, and I certainly don't object to people doing that, although for me personally it feels rather unnatural. But why not also do the thing I'm describing? What's the drawback?
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby badpenny » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:43 am

baixiwei wrote:I am missing why Ken & Penny do not think this is a good idea. It is not exclusive with your idea of players initiating specific interactions OOC, and I certainly don't object to people doing that, although for me personally it feels rather unnatural. But why not also do the thing I'm describing? What's the drawback?


Players are free to determine how their character will act/respond (unlike NPCs). So you might view your character as, say, super-beautiful and therefore the guy character(s) should want to interact with you. But the other player may not be impressed and you don't get the expected scene.

Just the same way that if a GM were to plot something and not anticipate the way a player responds--and not have something to fall back on--you get a little chaos.

So, even if Ysariel puts two players together, creates a scene where there should be some interaction, you might have a player throw a wrench into the works with an unexpected action (most likely attributed to their own agenda for their character).

I don't see sought-after interaction as unnatural, but necessary. Players come with their own agenda, and it may not feature you.

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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby kenseido » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:45 am

I guess I don't exactly see what you are looking for. You gave the example of the Courtroom scene - which Ysariel admitted to not knowing why that worked when every other scene I pointed out in a previous post did not elicit PC-PC interaction.

I will also remind you the "choosing a team name" scene was similar and that went nowhere. ANY scene can be used to drive PC-PC interaction. Scenes designed for PC-PC interaction can flop outright. There is only one key to their success, the players.

It's us, not the GM. This scene at the Expo is another perfect example. Chrysalis and Jackie have a chance to interact before they get there and then with Philip after they arrive. Chrysalis can easily see through Kisai's invisibility. If we start interacting, I am sure Ysariel will delay any action planned until we are done. If we don't, well then - action up.

If we don't use the opportunities that are presented, then its on us, not Ysariel.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby baixiwei » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:49 am

badpenny wrote:But the other player may not be impressed and you don't get the expected scene.


Hm. To me this is a feature, not a bug. If I already have an expected scene played out in my mind, what do I need the other players (and the GM) for? The whole point of involving other PCs is so that unexpected things can happen. For me, this is what makes it interesting.

And - if there is some external thing the PCs are reacting to, then even if the players completely ignore each other and just react to the external thing, you still get a scene. It may not be ideal from the point of view of promoting player interactions, but it's not like nothing at all will happen. And that's really no different from what can happen in a typical action scene. The players can choose to interact with each other or not, but the action scene still happens.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby baixiwei » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:51 am

kenseido wrote:If we don't use the opportunities that are presented, then its on us, not Ysariel.


I hope this isn't coming off as a criticism of Ysariel, which is not at all what I intended. As I said earlier, half my purpose in raising the issue was to see whether the other players were as interested in increasing the level of PC-PC interactions as I was. HOW to do it is step 2, and I personally think Ysariel can do a lot to facilitate that, although I don't disagree at all that there is a lot the players could do without Ysariel changing anything.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby kenseido » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:56 am

Well the point is that the other player may not pick up on the clues in your post, but if you PM them "Hey, wouldn't it be neat if this happened?" then the two of you would be on the same page and let it play out. At least then the other player knows what kind of clues to look for, and you can work out some of the kinks.

"Hey, what would you think about my character having a crush on your character?"

"That might be fun, but wouldn't it be neat if my character was oblivious to it all?"

"I'm not sure that would work. My character was taught a 3 strikes you're out rule. If the girl doesn't say yes after three times, then its time to move on."

"Okay, how about this? She says 'Yes' on the third time, but then turns it into a non-date. Then the three tries gets reset and we repeat the whole thing."

"That's a great idea."


This would never happen if the players didn't plan it out first.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby baixiwei » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:01 am

I certainly don't *object* to doing this kind of thing, as I said. It's not to my personal taste, but I'm not trying to convince anyone that their taste should be the same as mine. I'm just pointing out that it is not the only way.

I believe this issue of players not picking up on clues is entirely dealt with by the approach I suggest, which is that the GM provides an external stimulus. Players typically won't miss that. I suspect we read GM posts more carefully than other players' posts. I know I do.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby badpenny » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:03 am

It's kind of like the improv game of "Yes And". If you don't have that rule in place, then you might very well get shut down.

The GM can lead the characters to water, but can't make them drink. If you want something, you have to actually ask for it directly.

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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby baixiwei » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:17 am

Well, it sounds like Ysariel is open to trying something like what I suggested, and as far as I can tell, no one is actually objecting to it, so I'll wait and see what happens.

Personally I *really* do not like the idea of doing anything like what Ken just described. As I said before, if I've already scripted the scene, I'd have no interest in actually playing it out. What's more, I'd be much more interested in scenes that related organically to the larger narrative and world, and that requires Ysariel's participation IMHO. I guess I don't mind trying to arrange something OOC if someone suggests something particular but I will probably not be the first to do so. If the only way to have PC-PC interactions is to write a script in advance, I'd almost rather not have them at all. But I don't think it's the only way. It's an empirical question. If Ysariel tries what I suggested and it does not work, I'll reflect.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby kenseido » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:30 am

I think you are overestimating what I suggested. There is no script, at best a short outline/treatment.

If the two players hadn't planned out like I suggested, player #1 would have his character ask player #2 out. After the third time, the whole story would drop because player #2 is unaware of the three strikes rule. I know this for a fact, by the way.

You don't script the idea, you lay out some ground work so you have an idea where the story could lead. You are still roleplaying every encounter and reaction. Neither player knows where its going to lead or what exactly the other character is going to do next. From much experience in PbP games, this is the optimal way to drive character interaction. If you don't talk to them OOC, quite often they assume you don't want them to get involved in your story - or are to busy with their own stories to get involved in yours.

Again, experience talking here. I had a character crying out for attention for several adventures but none of the other players reacted because I didn't say anything OOC.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby baixiwei » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:08 pm

OK, perhaps I misunderstood. I'll think about this and maybe try something, who knows, maybe I'd like it more than I expect. But I'd also be happy if Ysariel put in more interactive non-combat scenes related to the main plot.

By the way, I have to admit that I have kind of lost the plot with Kisai right now. I have obviously not been reading his solo parts closely enough ... What's this about losing the Dragon and gaining a harness? Can someone give me like a 3-sentence summary? Obviously my character doesn't even know most of it but I would like to just have a general clue for my own edification.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby kenseido » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:11 pm

After the Trinity thing, Philip passed out. When he woke up, his powers were gone. He's been avoiding the team this whole three months because he thinks he lost the dragon by not being worthy. He was working in Mars R&D division to make a hi tech device that would give him powers.

But all the PCs know is he didn't show up for the press conference after Trinity is defeated and he hasn't returned any phone calls or contacted anyone on the team since that day.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby kenseido » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:00 am

I was kind of waiting for Ysariel to describe Philip's success or not and the inside of the Convention Cebter before responding to the two heroes who were likely mobbed upon arrival.
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Re: 2e Emerald City Knights OOC (full)

Postby FuzzyBoots » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:06 pm

I am going to be out most of tomorrow for my Grandpa's 90th birthday. I may get a chance to check up on it, but I will otherwise be occupied.


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