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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Nineofspades » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:02 pm

Given that we're using the M&M system, I don't see much destinction between the class combinations you described in terms of how each will function within this game. In D&D, those are two very different characters, but here Wizard/Warlock and Wizard/Sorcerer are going to be pretty similar.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby EPIC » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:02 pm

Plan B wrote:That doesn't answer my question, as i am asking if 105pp 9pl is an option.


It does answer your question. We were only given two options. PL8 at 120 or PL7 at 135.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Hound » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:33 pm

Nineofspades wrote:Cane sword (Mighty Damage 3, Crit 17/20, Subtle (DC 20 perception to locate)(7ep)
Alternate (Smoke Bomb)(1ep)
Padded Clothing (Protection 3, Subtle)(4ep)
Masterwork Lock pick (+4 Technology to pick locks)(1ep)
Forgers Kit (+6 Expertise (Forgery))(2ep)

Smoke Bomb, with out Damage is 8 Equipment Points, not 7.

Conceal standard vision, 4 EP, Cloud is 1/r so 8 EP.


A Thousand Faces ( Morph 3 (humanoids) Feats:Feature (Also Morphs Clothing and armor) ) [16PP] (Doppelgangers change their appearance)

Mind probe (Mind Reading 7 Feats: Subtle 2, Alternate Power 1) [17PP] (Entering the thoughts of another)
  • Alternate Power: Telepathy (Mental Communication 1Extras: Area (+1), Selective (+1) Linked Comprehend Languages 3 Feats: Subtle 2) [12PP] (Direct Mind to Mind Contact)


Morph looks good, Mind Probe looks good, but Telepathy looks off to me.

Mental Communication is typically 1 on 1. You add area to make it more than one... so which area? Burst area? Cone area? You need to define the area. If you want it to effect all 100 feet of your comm 1, you'll need to fudge numbers slightlly but you will need burst area level 3, so you can effect everyone with in 120 feet of you. Since come is 100, you would take the 100 instead.

That is 10 PP, Then if you take comprehend: understand all, am understood by all, thats Comprehend 2, not 3, costs 4 PP.

In total it is still less thanthe 16 PP of Mind Prove, so it works, it's just... written weird and trying to make sure we are fetting EXACTLY what you want.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Hound » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:33 pm

EPIC wrote:
Plan B wrote:That doesn't answer my question, as i am asking if 105pp 9pl is an option.


It does answer your question. We were only given two options. PL8 at 120 or PL7 at 135.


Correct.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Nineofspades » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:43 pm

Area: You can broadcast omni-directionally to every re-
ceiver within your maximum Communication range at
once. Note this extra is only strictly necessary to commu-
nicate with everyone over a wide area all at once; since
using and maintaining Communication are free actions,
the GM may allow a communicator to establish and main-
tain contact with multiple discrete receivers—such as the
members of the same team—all in the same round. +1
cost per rank.



Now, I may be mistaken, but my understanding of this is that the Area extra on Communication works slightly differently than the area extra on other powers, in that you only need to take the extra once to connect to everyone within your range.


I'll drop the forgers kit down to a +4 bonus so its only 1ep, then use the freed up point to raise the Crit range on the sword by 1, bringing its cost up to 8, so that the smoke bomb works
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Hound » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:48 pm

I accept your changes to forge's kid, and sword so the smoke bomb works

I was not aware of the feat on communications, it doenst show up in my version of hero lab. It's good to know, and satisfies my question.

Thanks Nine.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby kenmadragon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:54 pm

Decided to go with the Eldritch Theurge idea. I think that the warlock suits the campaign world better than sorcer. Better to be decended from the half demons than to simply be a natural spell caster. Note: One of the theurge's signature abilities is to load spell effects onto their Eldritch Blasts, so I expect it will work much like with the arcane archer build before. PL 8 build.
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Kitranis Fellstar

Abilities: 26
STR 0
CON 0
AGL 2
DEX 2
FGT 3
INT 5
AWE 0
PRE 1

Skills: 14
Deception 10 (+11)
Expertise: Arcane 8 (+13)
Investigation 2 (+7)
Perception 2 (+2)
Ranged Combat 6 (+8)

Advantages: 3
Equipment 1
Power Attack
Ritualist

Powers: 54
Mystic Senses Senses 1 (Magical Awareness) 1p
Demon Wings Flight 1 [flaws: Wings] 1p
Eldritch Blast Blast 8 [extras: Link and Unlink with Magic (+1)] 24p
Mystic Power Magic 8 19p
BE: Move Object 8
AE: Affliction 8 [extras: Variable Conditions]
AE: Create 5 [extras: Continuous, Movable; flaws: Close; feats: Precise]
AE: ???
Eidetic Spellcaster Variable 1 [flaw: Action (full round)] 6p
Fiendish Resilience Protection 2 2p
Mage's Staff Enhanced Advantages 3 (Accurate Attack, Defensive Attack, Improved Defense) [flaws: Easily Removable] 1p

Equipment:
Armor - Protection 3
Spell Components/Scrolls of Lore
Spell Book

Defenses: 23
Toughness 5
Dodge 11 (9p)
Parry 3
Fortitude 3 (3p)
Will 11 (11p)

Combat:
Attack 3 close, 8 ranged
Damage 0 unarmed, 8 Eldritch Blast
Initiative 2

Abilities 26 + Skills 14 + Advantages 3 + Powers 54 + Defenses 23 = 120 PP

Motivations
Power Hungry - When you get a lot of magical power, enough to rival many demons, you tend to want more. A lot more. Kitranis is no exception, and the Eldritch Theurge is out in the world to get it. He constantly seeks greater power, more knowledge, and understanding of the magical energies if this world, and looks for sources of power. He feels that he is never strong enough, but believes that once he has enough, he can finally settle down, and probably rule a small nation or kingdom and make a difference in the world.

You Owe Me - Kitranis believes that the world owes him a favor. After all he went through as a slave,and the horrible experimentation that was done on him, he believes that the entire world owes him for the horrors it has committed to him. Though the demons treated him well for a former human, he still feels angry with the world, and generally seeks ways for it to 'pay him back'. This generally includes his belief that he will gain ultimate power and that the world will give him that for its injustice.

Complications
Demonic Experiment - Kiteanis is a failed experiment, a test subject used in an attempt to turn a human into a full fledged demon. It worked half way. Though deemed a failure, he was still kept on, and taught the rudimentary basics of maic so he didn't die around the lab.

Never content- Kitranis always seems to want more. Whether it is power or influence, or simply recognition for hips talents, Kitrans has this insatiable hunger for more of it, and will sometimes disregard the rules or laws to get it.

No One Can Know - Kitranis was once a human slave, but ever since he was experimented on, he can never bri himself to call himself a human. He now feels too proud to be a lowly human, and will do what he can to make sure no one sees him as such.

Kitranis was one of those humans that was enslaved by the demons, and given to the demonic experimenters and lore seekers. They were trying to see if they could use a human to creat a demon. It had been attempted with breeding, but the idea came up among some extremist demons, that they could turn a human into a demon. They bought several human slaves, Kitranis one of them, and began their experiments, infusing their blood with hellfire, and channeling magic through their bodies. Kitranis was the only survivor. Though his physical appearance was altered, he was still not fully a demon. Disappointed, they decided to keep around the 'failed experiment', since Kitranis was able to maintain a hold of the demonic energies, and they instead wondered if they could yeah the changed being demon magic. They began to teach the former slave magic, and the slave learned all he could. Over time, the slave boy grew to become a man/thing, and though he appeared like a demon with his great leathery wings, and toughened skins, and mystic gaze, he was still mortal, and a slave. However, years under e tutelage of these demon experimenters, learning arcane lore and knowledge, led Kiteanis to become more like an apprentice, rather than a slave. In time, when some of the demons were beginning to separate to work on separate projects, Kitranis was let free. Thou he was grateful for the learning experience, Kitranis began to think more like a demon, and still felt that he had been wronged. H acted like a demon, and tried to leave his life as a human behind, and would tell people, he was a spell warped tie fling, who was the victim of a spell gone terribly wrong. If anything remained of the human in him, it was his anger at the world for being an experimental being, and suffering the verbal abuse of the demons, as a 'failure' and 'worthless mongrel'. Bt he seeks power. His demonic masters instilled that trait into him, and as a free being, he would get it. No matter the cost.
Last edited by kenmadragon on Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:29 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby EPIC » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:24 pm

In case anyone is looking at my build and wondering what justifies all those healing powers, I actually threw together a small skirmish for Hound to show that it's not all as potent as it seems. It shows her Delayed Damage power in action, how it works with Martial Spirit Stance, and a Furious Counter...sadly, she doesn't get much further than that because the opposition overwhelms her and eats her in two volleys of attacks, showing that regardless of her healing abilities, she's still squishier than a high toughness character when all is said.

Here's the skirmish
Silver VS Pack of Lions(5 PL6 lions from the back of the Hero Handbook)
Silver Init: 1d20+2=22
Lions Init: 1d20+3=13

Silver's Turn: Cleric array set to Strength Domain, she attacks one of the Lions with her sword.
1d20+7=23 Hits.
Lion Toughness vs DC22: 1d20+6=18 1 Degree

Lions Turns: They all attack, darting in and slashing with razor sharp claws.
1d20+7=22, 1d20+7=16, 1d20+7=25, 1d20+7=20, 1d20+7=14 3 Hits
Silver Toughness vs DC20: 1d20+6=25, 1d20+6=11, 1d20+6=20 2 Degrees on that second hit.
Silver's Delayed Damage: 1d20+10=22 Heals both conditions temporarily with 2 degrees (And because she does make the save, her toughness is not actually lowered for the third hit, so it's still a save..barely)

Silver's Turn: Turns her pain into power and unleashes a Furious Counter on the Lion that harmed her.
Martial Spirit regens worse condition from Temp healed damage: Stunned.
1d20+7=23 Hits.
Lion's Toughness vs DC22: 1d20+6=22 Saved, but needs to make another save against the same DC next round.
End of turn: Silver takes the temp Damage condition, so is at -1 Damage resistance checks.

Lion's Turn: Lion's gang up for another round of slashing claws.
1d20+7=20, 1d20+7=16, 1d20+7=19, 1d20+7=21, 1d20+7=24 4 hits that time.
Silver's Toughness vs DC20: 1d20+6-1=22, 1d20+6-1=12, 1d20+6-1=14, 1d20+6-1=7, 1d20+6-1=17 I rolled five times by accident, so ignore the last one.
First Delayed Damage vs 2 degrees: 1d20+10=12 She delays the stun, but still takes -1
Second Delayed Damage vs 2 Degrees:(Doesn't change since -1 to the check wouldn't increase the number of degrees failed) 1d20+10=27 Saved vs both degrees for now.
Third Delayed Damage vs 3 degrees: (Again, the -1 she failed to save wouldn't influence the degrees on this one) 1d20+10=14 Ouch, another -1 and Stunned, saved vs the Staggered for now

To recap:
Silver's Current Damage: -3 and Stunned
Silver's Temp Healed Damage: -3 more, Stunned and Staggered

Silver's turn: Stunned and cannot do more than give her head a shake and get back in the game.
Regens worse condition: Staggered from Delayed Damage.
End of turn: Damage shoots up to -6 Damage resistance and she's Stunned for another round.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Nineofspades » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:23 pm

Taking stock of the builds posted Thus Far.

Charis Tahllian- Drow Bladesinger

Tutek-Ogre Brute

Mardu ak'TaalGithzerai Monk

ParmelkKalashtar Psion

Silver Aasimar Crusader

Reshi Kata’reshRakshasa Mercenary

Kohl ReachwalkerShifter Ranger

Mir Doppleganger Spy
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Hound » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:38 pm

I'm impressed by the speedy submissions, But I want to give it a bit more time to give everyone a chance who is interested.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby EPIC » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:23 am

Just to note, Silver is a cross-class Cleric/Crusader, not just a Crusader. I actually call the class combination the ultimate paladin. If anyone is familiar with Unearthed Arcana, she would even more accurately be considered as gestalt class.

I really dislike the 3.5 paladin class. They can do a lot of things, but none of it particularily better than any other class that can do the same thing.

BAB of a fighter, but fighters get all those extra feats to compliment it. They have healing, but Clerics are FAR better at it. They can wear heavy armor, but so can Clerics and Fighters. So basically they are a cross of Cleric and Fighter.

But then so is a Crusader, but replace the magic with a more unique ability that makes it different from both fighter and cleric, Maneuvers. Normally, I combine Crusader with Knight in 3.5. The Knight's abilities to tank and shield others is awesome, and being the only other 3.5 base class with a d12 hit die doesn't hurt either, but the abilities are a pain to write into M&M, so Cleric was a good second option as they also have good defensive ability and compliment in the Crusader's abilities nicely.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby whiteprofit » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:24 am

I'm pondering up some things now. This recruitment is going fast! I guess you hit a major vein of need here.

Is something sea faring relevant to the campaign? Someone who owns a ship or something similar? Maybe a merfolk that gets legs on land, or a captain of a magic ship.

And are we limited by size? I know you say nothing is out until you see it, but is a giant going to find it too difficult to participate? Is a Fairy going to get squashed?

Those are the three directions, all very different I know, that I'm kind of leaning toward. If I had to pick, I think the Fairy is the most interesting to me so far. Something in the Shrinking 8 or 10 category. A tiny Magic Speedster. And maybe the captain of a ship... if relevant. lol ;)
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Nineofspades » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:37 am

I'll agree with your assessment epic. Paladin is actually my favorite class, because it comes with some very solid hooks for role playing, and if you can pull it off, its well worth the high degree of moral self control. Most of my favorite D&D stories come from Paladin characters. I had one who was supposed to get Ambushed by a ninja assassin. However, I ended up making my listen check, so I had a few rounds to get ready before they struck. Not enough time to change out of my nighty and into some proper armor. So My Dwarf charged the door right as they were picking the lock to the bedroom, and got a Natural 20 to break it down. The Door freaking exploded, and I got a suprise round on the ninja, because nobody expects a screaming dwarf to erupt out of a door wearing a night gown.

I ended up grappling the ninja and chocking her out. Tied her up and went on to collect the rest of the party and figure out what our next move was, all with an unconscious ninja chick slung over my shoulder. Here's what makes it awesome though. I kept the Ninja as a prisoner, and through interactions with her, turned the assassin into one of our groups most trusted allies, by getting her to reconsider the choices in her life.

That's what a paladin is all about, kicking ass one moment, and offing unconditional kindness the next. And I do agree that its such a shame then that 3.5 paladins are so ineffective, considering how strict a class it is to play.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby EPIC » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:21 am

No matter where I bring up my dislike of paladins, there's always SOMEONE who pipes up "but Paladin is my favorite class!" Lol. Just teasing.

Conceptually, yes, palains can be interesting, which is why I call my crusader/cleric or crusader/knight the true paladins. Just the way paladins are built, the abilities and class skills they are given, despite being well rounded, suffer too much for it.

It would be fine if you could build towards specializing on a particular aspect, and you can to a point, but mostly you're stuck with a bunch of watered down abilities and outshone by other classes in each individual area.

You don't fight as well as a fighter. You don't have the divine depth of power of a cleric, and your skills are lacking compared to a rogue. What you get for playing a paladin is a weak combination of the three.... and a horse I've never seen anyone actually utilize.

Crusaders get a fair choice of skills comparible to the paladin, but have better fighting skill and instead of a severly limited selection of spells, have maneuvers amd stances which give them unique abilities to other classes. They are the only martial adept class with access to the Dvoted Spirit discipline too which i consider to be thier signature discipline.
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Re: D&D: No Humans Allowed! (3E Recruiting)

Postby Hound » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:20 am

whiteprofit wrote:I'm pondering up some things now. This recruitment is going fast! I guess you hit a major vein of need here.

Is something sea faring relevant to the campaign? Someone who owns a ship or something similar? Maybe a merfolk that gets legs on land, or a captain of a magic ship.

And are we limited by size? I know you say nothing is out until you see it, but is a giant going to find it too difficult to participate? Is a Fairy going to get squashed?

Those are the three directions, all very different I know, that I'm kind of leaning toward. If I had to pick, I think the Fairy is the most interesting to me so far. Something in the Shrinking 8 or 10 category. A tiny Magic Speedster. And maybe the captain of a ship... if relevant. lol ;)


I like the Merfolk idea the best. May I suggest one of two things about the ship? Either someone has stolen it, sold it, and is off to who knows where with the money from the ship and it's cargo, and you're trying to track down the snake who did it, or you are trying to earn enough money to BUY your own ship
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