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The League of Extraordinary Persons (OOC)

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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Bladewind » Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:23 am

@Fynnarrel - exactly my intent. Your reading with the quirk is more technically sound and clearer . That is what the quirk that I gave of "unsubtle" was meant to represent...

Fell made me realize something... I was going for incredible aim. But I wound up writing a very munchkin power - even if I took it as written from a source book!

Okay, so at the moment, I've saved the sheet under a different name to keep the build as is in case I screw up my revisions... said revisions will be posted as soon as I fix the point cost (I fixed the problems but have go fix the overall cost now :roll: )
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Lord Fell » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:24 am

@Bluecross
The feel of the Highlander Immortality is difficult to stat up no matter how you cut it, so I'll cut you some slack there. Like, if you went the Immune Fortitude route that's also not accurate because he eats and sleeps. The one issue I kind of have with an Variable Immunity is that for 5pp you can have the exact same level of immunity someone with Life Support has. I think what I'd allow is Environmental Adaption (Variable 1, Flaw: Limited to Environmental Immunities) 6pp -So... that's almost the same damn thing. What I'm thinking is that it's going to take a round to kick into effect, so you can still be hampered by environments (briefly). The other thing is, a PL6 game is likely to have a more limited scope... I don't think players show up to this kind of game expecting their characters to need an immunity to Vacuum or High Pressure. I don't really think it's necessary to make you pay a whole 10pp for Life Support, when you're just not likely to need it.

I'm not really feeling the Mind Reading. You can justify it, and I can see wanting to expand on Connor's role. I just look at Highlander from a purist point of view; either he's won the battle and he's gained all the powers (such as telepathy) or he hasn't.

@Bladewind
I understand what you're trying to do... but Concealment doesn't work to accomplish it, I don't think. I just don't accept that there's a way to go from a power that makes you unnoticeable and replicate it by spraying an area down with bullets (making yourself extremely noticeable). I think 3e is sorely lacking the Obscure power. What I'd do to simulate what you want is use the Environment power, but shift it to a Cone. Movement would be hampered -people are either crawling, or if they put their trust in a bullet proof vest they will take two steps forward and be rocked back a step by a bullet. Vision would be obscured, because of flying shells, flying fragments from richochets, and people just plain keeping their damn heads down.

I also don't think you necessarily need to make your Deadly Aim power to be a Device; if you need guns (in general) to use it, it can still be Easily Removable.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Bladewind » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Lord Fell wrote:@Bladewind
I understand what you're trying to do... but Concealment doesn't work to accomplish it, I don't think. I just don't accept that there's a way to go from a power that makes you unnoticeable and replicate it by spraying an area down with bullets (making yourself extremely noticeable). I think 3e is sorely lacking the Obscure power. What I'd do to simulate what you want is use the Environment power, but shift it to a Cone. Movement would be hampered -people are either crawling, or if they put their trust in a bullet proof vest they will take two steps forward and be rocked back a step by a bullet. Vision would be obscured, because of flying shells, flying fragments from richochets, and people just plain keeping their damn heads down.

I also don't think you necessarily need to make your Deadly Aim power to be a Device; if you need guns (in general) to use it, it can still be Easily Removable.


That's a good compromise for the covering fire.
I will have to reread that power to better understand it's application for the idea. But I will retool it. Thanks. (Edit: read the power, like the effect. Heading back to edit the sheet...)

Deadly Aim will become simply that. I'll leave it with the guns as you suggest for Easily Removable. I am also removing the Deadly Strike aspect. It's too open to munchkinism even if I don't intend to munchkin... Question though... do I need to purchase two guns or do I purchase just one and the other is descriptor?

You seem to have dropped the matter with the variant "climbing" abilities. Other than the movement speed, does my explanation make it work or are you still on the fence for that one? BTW, There is no extra speed involved in this power:

Talent Powers: wrote:You can climb quickly and easily, like a trained “human fly”. With the Check Required modifier, you still suffer the normal results of failing an Athletics check while climbing (Hero’s Handbook, page 64) but you move twice as fast (speed –1 rather than speed –2). With 2 ranks of Movement, you climb very quickly (at your normal ground speed). Without the flaw, you also climb unerringly: you never fall or fail to make a climb.


Finally, in doing theses adjustments I come to an initial problem I saw with Lara... She can connect in a fist fight, but won't be able to do much in the way of damage with only +1 due to her Strength... thoughts for that?

So... I went back and edited the sheet somewhat. I have not fixed the Lay Down Cover yet, but since it will AP off of the Deadly Aim, I am comfortable with leaving that "error" for now.

I am sitting at 107 points and thus two points over.

Two reasons I haven't shaved those points yet: 1) I asked if it was required to buy two guns or just one... (on that subject as well, I went with two heavy pistols... should they be light?) 2) At the same time, I should also ask if the wealth bonus needs to be present in this game at all... :wink:

I did drop the wealth regardless of the answer to the question above to 2. And I also removed Well Informed - In rethinking Lara, to me it's mostly bluster and bravado and not actually knowing things...
Last edited by Bladewind on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Adventure Dan » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:16 pm

Made the recommended changes to Rocky, and something else:

- Dropped the Second Chance Advantage and one rank in Athletics to get Business 4.
- Dropped Strength to 3 and added Strength-based Damage 1 and a second rank of Improved Critical.

Now I just need to get the Complications/Background up.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Lord Fell » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:31 pm

@Bladewind
I'm not sure where you're at with the Wall Climbing. I haven't changed my thoughts on that, have you changed your build in response to my last post? I'm not going to badger you about it, but it doesn't make sense to me that Lara can climb faster than she can run.

I don't think the Improvised Weapon clause was Munchkinish, exactly... I just think it made a potential loophole. It is definitely a mechanical flaw with the power as (it was) written, but not a major one. I sort of feel like Lara should have two guns. I think it could be argued that you don't really, because the power is legit as written with one. I guess there are also examples of Equipment where a piece of gear can be considered to be a supply of that piece of gear. I'm tempted to say pay your 6ep for a Light Pistol and an extra 1ep for "spares". Roguescribner may have a different take on that.

As for Lara Croft: Face Punch! Uhm... I just don't see it as a problem. If you slug someone with a Strength of +1, the DC to avoid damage is 16. A typical enemy at this level (and I mean full fledged enemy, not a minion) is going to have on average a +6 Toughness. This means Lara has a 50/50 chance of putting a hit on him that he's going to feel... but she's not an unarmed fighter.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Bladewind » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:40 pm

Lord Fell wrote:@Bladewind
I'm not sure where you're at with the Wall Climbing. I haven't changed my thoughts on that, have you changed your build in response to my last post? I'm not going to badger you about it, but it doesn't make sense to me that Lara can climb faster than she can run.


I left it for now, because I just don't see how you think she climbs faster than she runs. Speed Climbing had no element of the actual Speed power in it. She can't climb faster than her normal ground speed with two ranks, and I only gave her one rank.

Lord Fell wrote: I guess there are also examples of Equipment where a piece of gear can be considered to be a supply of that piece of gear. I'm tempted to say pay your 6ep for a Light Pistol and an extra 1ep for "spares". Roguescribner may have a different take on that.


Fair answer, I have no issue paying for both, but that makes for a good assessment. I'll wait for roguescribner given your last sentence.

Lord Fell wrote:As for Lara Croft: Face Punch! Uhm... I just don't see it as a problem... but she's not an unarmed fighter.


Very True. But this is also a RPG... players and characters don't like feeling useless. Then again, your math shows she's not useless so problem solved.
Last edited by Bladewind on Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby flynnarrel » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:41 pm

Bladewind wrote:That's a good compromise for the covering fire.
I will have to reread that power to better understand it's application for the idea. But I will retool it. Thanks. (Edit: read the power, like the effect. Heading back to edit the sheet...)


Maybe Selective, Cone, Affliction (Impaired, Disabled), Concentration, Instant Recovery,Resisted by Will?
You shower an area with bullets and it makes it harder for enemies to concentrate.

Deadly Aim will become simply that. I'll leave it with the guns as you suggest for Easily Removable. I am also removing the Deadly Strike aspect. It's too open to munchkinism even if I don't intend to munchkin... Question though... do I need to purchase two guns or do I purchase just one and the other is descriptor?


This can create a wierd scenario where the Deadly Aim ability can be disarmed separate from the weapon she's holding since they are distinct things. For logic, that'll likely be handwaved, but another solution would be to include 2 linked equipment points in the power for the guns (Heavy Pistols (Blast 8.), Split, <something else>)

That way the GMs still have Equipment to play with (run out of bullets, etc) and the link better indicates the power is tied.

Finally, in doing theses adjustments I come to an initial problem I saw with Lara... She can connect in a fist fight, but won't be able to do much in the way of damage with only +1 due to her Strength... thoughts for that?


Have friends. :)
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Bladewind » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:44 pm

flynnarrel wrote:
Bladewind wrote:
Finally, in doing theses adjustments I come to an initial problem I saw with Lara... She can connect in a fist fight, but won't be able to do much in the way of damage with only +1 due to her Strength... thoughts for that?


Have friends. :)


roflmao

This can create a wierd scenario where the Deadly Aim ability can be disarmed separate from the weapon she's holding since they are distinct things. For logic, that'll likely be handwaved, but another solution would be to include 2 linked equipment points in the power for the guns (Heavy Pistols (Blast 8.), Split, <something else>)


Is that really needed? Isn't having the guns as paid for equipment enough? I was thinking earlier, that with extra effort she could pick up higher calibre weaponry instead of her own guns...
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Lord Fell » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:17 pm

@Bladewind
This is what I'm looking at:
Talented: (9 points)
Perfect Balance: Movement 2 [Wall Crawling; Flaw - Limited to upright movements],
Swinging: Movement 1 [Flaw - Athletics Check Required],
Vaulting: Leaping 2
Climbing: Movement 1 [Flaw - Athletics Check Required]
(my bolding). Uhm... I'm sure that when I originally looked at it, the second Climbing ability was described as Speed Climbing, hence my confusion. However... you still have two abilities that are Climbing. Redundancy.

As per Flynnarrel's suggestion re: linked equipment, I think that's just a matter of notation. Linking an Equipment Feat to the Power, does imply you need the extra items. At the same time, defining the power as Requiring pistols/easily removable is just as implicit of there being an equipment component. Also, Light Pistols would be sufficient for the power, the additional damage is a function of accuracy not calibre.

You've got some suggestions for how Covering Fire could be written up... make it work.

@Adventure Dan
For the most part, those are just the changes I suggested, so I'm OK with that.

@All
Don't forget the houserule; 3 ranks of skill per 1pp skill points!
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby kirinke » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:22 pm

Finally, in doing theses adjustments I come to an initial problem I saw with Lara... She can connect in a fist fight, but won't be able to do much in the way of damage with only +1 due to her Strength... thoughts for that?


Brass Knuckles.
Pepper spray.
Heck, if you can throw things at them like sand, slime etc.
Barring that, shoot em from a distance and run like fun if they shrug it off.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby Bladewind » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:30 pm

Lord Fell wrote:@Bladewind
This is what I'm looking at:
Talented: (9 points)
Perfect Balance: Movement 2 [Wall Crawling; Flaw - Limited to upright movements],
Swinging: Movement 1 [Flaw - Athletics Check Required],
Vaulting: Leaping 2
Climbing: Movement 1 [Flaw - Athletics Check Required]
(my bolding). Uhm... I'm sure that when I originally looked at it, the second Climbing ability was described as Speed Climbing, hence my confusion. However... you still have two abilities that are Climbing. Redundancy.

As per Flynnarrel's suggestion re: linked equipment, I think that's just a matter of notation. Linking an Equipment Feat to the Power, does imply you need the extra items. At the same time, defining the power as Requiring pistols/easily removable is just as implicit of there being an equipment component. Also, Light Pistols would be sufficient for the power, the additional damage is a function of accuracy not calibre.

You've got some suggestions for how Covering Fire could be written up... make it work.


It was written as Speed Climbing - just scroll down to the quoted version of the character. :D It still never had Speed in the actual power, lol. Sorry for the confusion. Now, you did say you wouldn't badger so I should just let it be, but the two Climbing abilities are Wall Crawling in name only. In one, she can walk along the narrowest ledge without risk of falling. In the other, she climbs exceptionally well but still has the risk of falling. Since they cost 2 PP and 1 PP respectively, it's essentially like having two ranks of Wall-Crawling for the cost of 3 PP instead of 4 (accounting for flaws vs no flaws...) And the rest is descriptor... Redundant to a certain extent, but better flavour IMNSHO...

We see the Aim the same way regarding accuracy versus calibre. Switch down to light pistols (hence now at 106 pp).

I liked your suggestion for covering fire. It was quite cheap to stat, but since it is the AP of a 17 point power I think it works well. Enemies get a -5 to attack rolls.

There's room to link a damage effect, but the better option to me would eventually to make the two abilities Dynamic - reduce her damage a little as she lays down fire, but pick off the occasional mook who sticks up his head... (But that's a headache for another day - not enough points for that ATM.)
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby kirinke » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:32 pm

What you can do, for incredible aim, instead of buying it as a power, you can buy it as a skill (ranged combat, pistols), and max that out.

****
Alright, taking some of Lord Fell's suggestions in mind, I revamped Matilda's character sheet. I see her primarily as a ranged fighter. With her being a college kid, I don't see her having much in the way of close-combat experience, except maybe for a few courses in self defense (hence the 4 in unarmed and parry). I also put in some languages (I hope I did the math on that right), because I can see her being a linguist.

I do see her as being quick on her feet, and able to duck and dodge, due to her rather horrible childhood pre-adoption by Ms. Honey. Being the practical sort, she's kept that up as well as her tk skills.

ABILITIES
0 STR
0 STA
2 DEX
2 AGL
2 FGT
8 INT
2 AWE
2 PRE
PP 36

DEFENSES
6(2+4) DODGE
4(2+2) PARRY
4 FORT
6 (Force Field) TOUGH
6(2+4) WILL
PP 14

SKILLS
2(2+2) Close Combat, unarmed
6(2+4) Ranged Combat, power array
2 Acrobatics
2 Athletics
4(2+2) Stealth
4(2+2) Sleight of hands
4(2+2) Insight
4(2+2) Perception
6(2+4) Persuasion
4(2+2) Intimidation
8(2+6) Deception
9(8+1) Investigation
12(8+4) Technology
Expertise
8 History
8 Current Events
8 Popular Culture
12(8+4) Science
8 Criminal
PP 11

Advantages
Eidetic Memory
Inventor
Improvised Tools
Speed of Thought
Languages 5
PP 9

LANGUAGES
English Native
Spanish
French
Russian
Latin
Egyptian
Arabic
Chinese (Mandarin)
Japanese
Ancient Greek
Ancient Egyptian
Akkadian
Summarian



INDEPENDENT POWERS
Force Field (Protection 6)

POWER ARRAY
Default Telikensis 6 (Move object 6, precise)
Telekinetic Wave 6 (Blast 6)
Force Shield 6 (Deflect/Reflect)
PP 14
Last edited by kirinke on Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby kenmadragon » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:19 pm

Well, thanks for informing about the unnecessariness of low light vision. I'll change it to just read Dark Vision, and use the point to beef up intimidate or something. As to the Gargoyle Rage, well, in the show, whenever a gargoyle gets mad, his eyes glow like stars in the night, shining white for males, red for females. that accounts for the noticable flaw, since you can see always see the eyes, no matter how dark it is, and even if their back is turned, you can just feel the anger rippling off like an aura of rage. The anger limitation is much like that of the Hulk's, where it generally happens when you seriously cheese him off. As per the show, Goliath is generally a calm and careful warrior, and never gets angry unless badly injured, or if fighting a crazed foe like Demona or Xanatos or Macbeth. So, 'Anger' in itself is not truly something as slightly peeved at someone, say a bank robber, but more like true rage.ImageAlso, the gargoyles show that when they are enraged, they exhibit enhanced muscular strength and stamina, able to hit harder/faster, lift more, and shrug of mightier blows. I put in the impervious to show how their body is more resilient in their rage, but just put in penetrating since Goliath already hits his PL caps without rage. I think that Xanatos and the Illuminati society are already rather easy to integrate, as what world is complete without a secret orginization to run the world from the shadows? and what better fr-enemy than Xanatos who has connections to them? (Also, as I recall, Big Trouble in Little China had magic, so figures like the Archmage or possibly the changeling Puck or the Wyrd Sisters shouldn't be that hard to incorporate with mysticism already in the pot).
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby kirinke » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:31 pm

Also, I seem to remember somewhere that Highlander Immortals can drown or suffocate and while they do die from it, they recover as soon as they're in a place they can start breathing again.

They aren't Supermen. They're the squishy kind of immortal. In essence, they're mostly human, save for maybe quicker reflexes and the inability to die (unless decapitated), along with all of the experience that an immortal has. With these guys, Jack of Trades or eidetic memory is probably a must. I also wouldn't give them immunity to critical hits, mainly because they're essentially humans with a few quirks. I mean in the TV shows, they've been hit and taken down by bullets (that's classic crits right there!). So yeah. If you take off immunity drowning/crits you could then use the extra PP's towards either skills or more combat feats.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Persons (Recruiting thru 9/10)

Postby hazy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:03 pm

Tweaked Jack.

Dropped his Dex down to 2 and added Ranged Combat Skill (Thrown)
Dropped Throwing Mastery to 2 which means he can still do 4 damage with a paperclip in theory but I don't know what to do about that other than adding a knife "device" that increases damage or just battle under caps. I suppose I could go with a +2 Attack / -2 Damage trade-off? Probably not a bad idea?
I've got 3 points left over. Maybe some more skills...
Added Ambidexterity because how could I forget?
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