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3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Zen_Gypsy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:22 pm

Sadly your persuasion, of "You're not telling me if you aren't speaking to me and just talking out loud." Wouldn't work on any sort of criminal, mercenary, or any bonded employee.

The fact is the Brit was caught, transported to prison, two members of the New Guardians visited him, and then acted on information only the Brit could know. Semantics of whether he told you or not are for logic games, in a circle of professionals if he gives up his employer he is untrustworthy, and unhireable when he does get out. We need to offer him something better. Sadly. Or just threaten to eat his face >.>
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby EPIC » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:31 pm

Except your logic is slightly flawed by being incomplete.

He has zero loyalty, and may well want revenge against the employer who got him into this mess as a measly distraction. He's not a bonded employee, and criminals and mercenaries will do what best benefits them, and in some case, revenge is more important, especially if they figure they can get away without anyone knowing they tipped anyone off.

As for "information only the Brit could know", it's information he's not supposed to know and figured out himself (if he did indeed so figure such out).

That all having been said, it's really up to Neo if he wants to give us this clue or not. *shrug* From a GM standpoint, it's convenient way to feed a clue, and I DID roll really good on persuasion.

And he may simply not know.
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Zen_Gypsy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:46 pm

Except even a mercenary with zero loyalty to an employer, wants to remain employable. /shrug. Like you said it's Neos call, I just feel as though I'd lose respect for a self proclaimed Merc who would do that. Wilson Slade would just glare at us lol
"If sacred spaces are spared the ravages of war -- make all places sacred. And if the holy people are to be kept harmless from war -- make all peoples holy." -- Norrin Radd (Silver Surfer: Requiem; J. Michael Straczynski)
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby EPIC » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:13 pm

That's the whole point though isn't it? No-one is SUPPOSED to find out. No honor lost for the name of a person who sold them out that he has no loyalty to.
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Zen_Gypsy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:44 pm

I suppose I would treat it differently, in my opinion a professional mercenary, sold out or not, wouldn't spill his employer because he'd lose his credibility. I guess that's the difference between a professional and a hired thug. We'll see what Brit turns out to be ;)
"If sacred spaces are spared the ravages of war -- make all places sacred. And if the holy people are to be kept harmless from war -- make all peoples holy." -- Norrin Radd (Silver Surfer: Requiem; J. Michael Straczynski)
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Shock » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:24 am

There's also the possibility that a hired professional would want to send a message that it's not OK to hire him under false pretenses and throw him to the wolves. If you don't treat him professionally, why should he extend that curtesy to you?
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Zen_Gypsy » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:23 am

The mere fact that the man was a mercenary meant he had little honor to begin with.
If you don't treat him professionally, why should he extend that curtesy to you?


The first statement is a dangerous assumption to make, and in answer to your question, the Ronin archtypical image is that of an honorable man forced to make dishonorable decisions after the death of his lord, that ronin image from Fourty Seven Ronin directly influenced the image of the Cowboy from American films, gunmen from the wildwest that hold themselves to a higher code of moral authority than those who hire them. That also bleeds into the cyberpunk genre, where street hitmen literally know their employer is out to screw them, but they do the job anyways, as it is their only option.

Then again, the above genres are something near and dear to my heart, as is the honorable professional archtype, so I guess that is why it's a little off to me. Like I say we'll see what kind of professional the Brit is. One to respect, or one who rolls over on his employer by breaking a contract.
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Shock » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:40 am

I don't disagree. The first statement was Trissa's opinion, not mine.
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Zen_Gypsy » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:43 am

True, true, looking forward to finding out what the Brit is made of. :)
"If sacred spaces are spared the ravages of war -- make all places sacred. And if the holy people are to be kept harmless from war -- make all peoples holy." -- Norrin Radd (Silver Surfer: Requiem; J. Michael Straczynski)
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby EPIC » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:17 am

Like I say we'll see what kind of professional the Brit is. One to respect, or one who rolls over on his employer by breaking a contract.


I am almost positive his contract did not include being a patsy. So the contract was likely already breached by the employer, thus rendering it null and void. Honorable or not, it's sheer stupidity to hold yourself to a contract that has been broken against you.

The thing is, you're assuming the only "correct" way for the Brit to act is your preconceived way as outlined a few posts ago. That that is the only respectable way for a mercenary to act.

But you see it in movies all the time where a criminal, ex-employee or merc will tip off the protagonist either directly or indirectly to strike back against their ex-employer for some slight or another, generally as a convenient plot node to set the protagonist off on the right path. (Or a red herring. Who's to say the Brit doesn't convincingly lie to us? My Insight wasn't THAT great)

Again, this is only over being slighted. In the Brit's case, intentionally being thrown to the wolves as a distraction. Neo even noted the Brit finds his present situation somewhat humiliating.

The fact of the matter is, why are you so against us getting information?

Heck, I'm not even saying he should tell us flat out "Oh here's the name". Nudging us in a direction to learn who the guy behind the curtain is without directly telling us isn't specifically telling us. Not everything is as black and white as you're making it out to be, and YOUR idea of honor isn't the ONLY version.

Basically, your comment stating that my check CAN'T produce the results is what annoyed me here. That is NOT your call to make. You then turn around and say you want to just threaten to eat his face to get him to talk? How is that better? By your own logic he'd sooner let his face be eaten than give up what he knows.

So in short, hush up.
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Zen_Gypsy » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:36 am

I was simply stating the semantics of how you phrased your persuasion check where rather, shall we say, immature? I'm not listening, but you can think out loud if you want ... La La La ...

Other than that it was a discussion, not an argument, and as I stated many times, it is *my* opinion, and I was just generating comment unrelated to the game, hence being in OOC, that is not my decision to make, just mentioning how I would play it. If you want to take offense to me making comments in regards to how I view a true mercenary code, go for it.

But it's just my view, and I am waiting to see how Brit responds, not trying to tell anyone how I think he will respond.

Edit: Looking back I realize my first post said
Wouldn't work on any sort of criminal, mercenary, or any bonded employee.
which is my error, it should have been Shouldn't in my opinion ... I assumed that was implied, but this being the internet I should have been more clear ... all in all I considered this a discussion while waiting for the results of our individual actions ... also I blame my lack of clarity on my "Eat his face" comment. I assume most readers would understand it was spoken in jest to inject a certain levity to my comments :)
"If sacred spaces are spared the ravages of war -- make all places sacred. And if the holy people are to be kept harmless from war -- make all peoples holy." -- Norrin Radd (Silver Surfer: Requiem; J. Michael Straczynski)
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Neo-Paladin » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:33 pm

Too tired to respond today, shall do so tomorrow or on Sunday. No worries, still here and still eager :)
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Shock » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:54 pm

That's cool Neo.
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby EPIC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:46 am

Forgot to mention in my previous post, the conclusion Valk came to from Brit's indirect hinting came from an Investigation roll sent to Neo in PM. So I'm not just throwing theories to the wind to see what sticks to the fridge. (Don't get it? You're not supposed to xD)
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Re: 3e: Earth-47: The New Guardians reboot (OOC)

Postby Neo-Paladin » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:39 am

Wow...I am really grateful for everyone rolling with it. If things keep on going like this it'll turn into an amazing game!
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