[2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

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Omnipotent Being
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Omnipotent Being » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:40 am

Updated list of character submissions

Danielle Dynamite, Dynamite Lady by jemal
Andrew Quest, Citizen Zero by Sakuro
Robin Rivera, Mindfreak
John Watt by Corrigon
Onatah Neasa Xavier, Onyx by VampGuy
Shadya Brown, Star Shadow by digitalangel

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby digitalangel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:11 pm

I have a question on my build for Shadya. I know about (and changed to) the speed of thought feat from mastermind's manual to use int for initiative instead of dex. Basically the only reason that she has a dex attribute at all is to be able to make physical attacks since half her attacks are touch range since she literally has no body.

Should I just leave the 10 dex in place or does anyone have a better suggestion for dealing with the other things that rely on her still have a dex?

namely:
Manipulation of things with her move object power (I would think a feat to use either the move object rank or int instead would be reasonable here)
Moving about (Don't really see that as a problem already because of flight)
Possibly using int instead of dex for reflex saves (again I would think it would be fair to feat this, similar to speed of thought)

The biggy for this character (touch range attacks still being usable without having to go to ranged or aura on steal life and steal energy)

I don't really even care if it ends up not freeing up any points (although she has none to spare). It just doesn't make sense to me to stuck relying on dex for a character with no physical body.
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Omnipotent Being » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:24 pm

Any creature capable of movement has at least 1 point of Dexterity. A creature with no Dexterity cannot move (like most plants) and hence cannot make physical attacks. It automatically fails Dexterity checks and Reflex saves.
Unless you can afford Immunity to Reflex saves, I'd say don't do it.

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby digitalangel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:41 pm

Omnipotent Being wrote:
Any creature capable of movement has at least 1 point of Dexterity. A creature with no Dexterity cannot move (like most plants) and hence cannot make physical attacks. It automatically fails Dexterity checks and Reflex saves.
Unless you can afford Immunity to Reflex saves, I'd say don't do it.


Like I said before, I would think a feat similar to speed of thought to use int instead of dex for reflex saves would be reasonable. It really isn't even the reflex saves that I'm super worried about. I can't afford immunity to reflex by any means, that would be even more expensive than just buying up the touch attacks to ranged and saying screw it.

Within the guidelines for creating feats from mastermind's manual, swapping a different stat on reflex saves and dex checks should be reasonable.

I'm trying to look at this from a character concept point of view but maybe I should pull on my programmer's hat here for a second :twisted: and manipulate the rules (or just leave it as is). I guess what I could do within mechanics is buy down dex to 1-2 (since almost nothing in the character actually suffers from a dex penalty as long as it never goes to 0. Then use those points to buy a few feats to convert dex checks and reflex saves to use either int or move object ranks and then use the remaining points to buy an immunity to dex being drained. Heck 5 points for immunity to alteration effects (should cover all drains (with the down side being no boosts either) or transformation effects) and then the other 3 points from dropping dex to 2 for the feats mentioned above.

The problem isn't that I can't find a way to make the numbers work. I'm trying to find a way to do it being true to the character concept without it feeling like I'm purposefully min maxing the system. i guess I'll send Moira a provate message pointing to this idea and see if it flies. GM has final approval for things anyway.
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Omnipotent Being » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:22 pm

Relatedly, I've been looking at my build and feeling very "meh" about it. I don't know what it is that makes me dislike it. Any one want to take a look at it and suggest some stuff?

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby digitalangel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:32 pm

@Being

I think mechanically the build is good. Honestly without some back story or a description of the character concept beyond being a psychic I don't know what to suggest to make you feel less "meh" about it.
Last edited by digitalangel on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Omnipotent Being » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:35 pm

Yeah, i've decided to be one of the rich kids who got powers. Story being that she felt like a puppet in her own life. A sidekick to her friends and vices. The power zap gave her powers to take control. That's the concept at least.

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Corrigon » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:54 pm

Omnipotent Being wrote:Yeah, i've decided to be one of the rich kids who got powers. Story being that she felt like a puppet in her own life. A sidekick to her friends and vices. The power zap gave her powers to take control. That's the concept at least.


Maybe some trouble with your old friends and what powers they gained might be something to throw in

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Sakuro » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:16 pm

Omnipotent Being, you should make a character that you'll enjoy playing. What do you like to do in games? Do you like to be dymanic in combat? If that is the case, I'd suggest pulling away from the manipulation/mind control effects and go with a telekinetic. Generally the mind control stuff isn't seen as very heroic, and it doesn't do anything against robots, golems, and walls.

Something I noticed, all of your character's skills are 20's. There is no variety. People usually have a specialty, then a few skills they're good at, and maybe some they're ok at. You might want to mix things up to reflect the degrees of skill your character has. Rather than making her one of the best in the world at all of their skills.

DigitalAngel, isn't there a template for ghosts? I'd take a look at that, and use it for inspiration when it comes to how to reflect a being with no body through mechanics. If they have Dexterity, your character likely should as well.
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby digitalangel » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:42 pm

I thought I remembered that template, but had a hard time finding it. The problem with too many PDFs to search through. If you remember where that one is, please let me know to check against it.

Moira told me that it was ok and if it got broken we'd deal with it. Honestly as a GM I'd probably say no myself to this extent, but I usually let character concept bend the rules some.
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Illusionista » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:46 pm

The Ghost is in Book of Magic. It has very high Dexterity ;)

Edit: and by high i mean exactly 10. Man this foot sure tastes rotten!

Edit 2: This is the ghost stats in full

Str 10 Dex 10 Con — Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 15
Skills: Intimidate 8 (+10)
Feats: Fearless, Fearsome Presence 8
Powers: Concealment 10 (power loss versus mystical senses), Flight 1 (Continuous), Immunity 40 (Fortitude effects, mental effects), Insubstantial 4 (Continuous; Permanent; Innate), Regeneration 15 (Recovery Bonus +9; Resurrection 1/week [power loss when laid to rest properly or task is done]) Super Senses 3 (detect life [extended 2]), Telekinesis 2 (Affects Corporeal; Subtle)
Combat: Attack +3, Grapple +3, Damage +0, Defense +4 (+2 flatfooted), Knockback –0, Initiative +0
Saving Throws: Toughness +0, Fortitude —, Reflex +0, Will +2
Abilities 0 + Skills 2 (8 ranks) + Feats 9 + Powers 102 + Combat 14 + Saves 0 = Total 127

Edit 3!: they also suggest some extra powers

• “Each body but a shell…”: Possession 10
• “See my pain, live my pain…”: Illusion 10 (all senses; Damaging, Independent; Limited- only to replay events and scenes from ghost’s past)
• “Cower in my presence…”: Paralyze 8 (Perception Area; Sense-Dependent [sight])
• “Share the breath of your life with me…”: Drain Constitution 8 (Affects Corporeal, Aura, Sustained Duration)
• “I am bound here by a power greater than yours…”: Immunity 15 (banishing and nullifying effects)
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Sakuro » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:13 pm

Mindfreak and Dynamite Lady still don't have backgrounds. Onyx still needs to be brought up to PL 12 and requires setting specific adjustments to her background. I know Moria hasn't set a deadline for recruitment but it has been about a week. We should be trying to wrap things up about now so Moria can review complete characters. Not just mechanics. Don't forget to have at least two Complications. Those are useful for plot hooks.
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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby Moira » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:45 pm

Sakuro wrote:Moria
Hmmm? :twisted:

Open recruitment until the first of May. Closed recruitment until people get their characters finished up and/or I feel i have a good group dynamic.
RIP Angel 1989-2011

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby VampGuy » Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:09 am

I'm sorry guys, but I have to bow out.

RL has been busy and coming up is only getting more so, so I wish you all best of luck and hope the game turns out good :)
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam" -- I'll either find a way or make one

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Ultimate Showdown:Riddick

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Re: [2e] Paragons of the New World (recruiting)

Postby digitalangel » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:58 am

Moira wrote:
Sakuro wrote:Moria

Open recruitment until the first of May. Closed recruitment until people get their characters finished up and/or I feel i have a good group dynamic.


I think Shadya is ready for final approval now.

After seeing the template on Ghosts from Book of Magic again, I revised her a little more. She is built as a kind of cross between the ghost template and the power profile for shadow powers. Her move object appears to onlookers as shadowy hands/tendrels emerging from her body possibly with tools in the hand to punch/squeeze/move/cut/whatever she is using it on. When swapping her movement array to the added ranks of flight, she sprouts shadowy wings from her back (no wings flaw, just a descriptor may change it up some from sceen to sceen). I also added the mental effects immunity from the ghost template, although she still has a pretty decent Will save on top of it.

I went ahead and moved all her powers in the attack array to ranged and shifted her attack all into ranged since she has no touch ranged attack left, and being insubstantial keeps her from being able to punch someone for any effect anyway. She is at PL caps offensively, and decent on defense now although still a little below caps defensively. Since her concept is that her attacks and interactions with the world are mostly based on force of will, I made most of them require a concentration check, and added the second chance feat for concentration. It means that there is a chance most of her attack can fizzle, but it also offset most of the cost of setting everything to ranged. I had to trim back some of her smaller powers, skills, and feats as well for some of the points. I dropped a couple skill ranks and the wealth and inventor feats, and made her more that auto mechanic/restorer instead of a full fledged engineering backgorund since that was mainly for background purposes anyway and not the main concept.

Although Moira was willing to work with me on nullifying her dex and shifting the effects to Int and Wis, when I saw that the ghost and revenant templates still had dex, I just left her with a normal dex attribute.


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