Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby Bladewind » Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:42 pm

kenmadragon wrote:Is it just me, or is everything now conspiring to make Willy seem even more insane in the eyes of... Everyone?

How fun! :mrgreen:


Sure looks that way !!! :P

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby EnigmaticOne » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:20 pm

Not trying to push any appearance of meta-gaming. Tinker just suspects, currently - but he's going to have a post-mission talk with Willy to get the point across that this state of affairs cannot continue.
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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby flynnarrel » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:52 pm

Greene thinks he's crazy and delusional... and potentially a liability.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby optionqb » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:42 pm

The Marian isn't sure what to think about Beetle's "conversations". Is it reasonable to assume that Beetle's suit has some sort of tactical computer? That's probably what Roberto would assume. The only thing that might seem odd are his arguments with it...especially if they get really intense. So far, Roberto has merely assumed that Beetle is a little eccentric...and maybe a little trigger-happy. :lol:

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby TempestII » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:33 pm

I'm still here I swear. I've got a day off tomorrow (yay).

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby jemal » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:09 am

honestly I don't think you can even call it metagaming at this point. It's very obvious that the kid is either highly mentally disturbed or talking to someone/thing else, and from his actions/reactions, and what he's been saying, it seems most likely that it's the suit and that he wants to keep it a secret for some reason.


With his insight and emotion senses, Andy should have figured it out a while ago but
I think we're worried about metagaming so much that we've actually all been meta-gaming in the OPPOSITE direction, trying hard to make our characters NOT notice he's an AI, when the signs are pretty clear.

I actually read just the parts of Beetle's posts that our characters would be privey to (his actions and vocalizations) to Two friends and my cousin.. they all figured out it was an AI before our characters had left the briefing room.
It's been telegraphed fairly loudly.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby Bladewind » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:39 pm

To be honest, I think that's something that should be wrapped up by the players - knowledge of the AI that is.

Most of the people that would have interacted with him to date can still be unaware, but it's not likely that the League is. Hash it out here before IC if you prefer, but it would make things easier going forward.

Please. Thanks.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby kenmadragon » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:15 am

I was actually trying to make it seem like Willy was simply suffering from some manner of psychological condition where he talks to people that aren't there. He appears incredibly paranoid and trigger happy, but seems to be trying not to be. My intent was for the suit to be seen as simply a device that he can control, that has no more intelligence than a tactical combat system. With Siri (with all the flaws, and pretty much none of the benefits). But beyond the fact that he can't really control his combat systems, he appears very much mentally touched.

SO, yeah, I actually expected people to begin suspecting, but honestly, Occam's Razor and all, insane is the best answer. It makes the least assumptions, and is the simplest theory. Evidence already exists of insanity, and Willy could easily be diagnosed as suffering from some manner of psychological condition.

And as to the metagaming, the phrasing of "With his insight and emotion senses, Andy should have figured it out" sounds a lot like metagaming. Funny, huh? :P

But with reference to Andy's stats, your emotion senses let you detect presence/absence of feelings, as well as fine details of these 'feelings'. Not seeing how that tells Andy the suit has an AI. That Willy is angry, nervous, conflicted, irritable, and scared? Sure. But that there is an AI? Um... no, not really.

But, let's not argue this point. I don't want to involve myself in a "justify character knowledge because stats say so" debate again. I've had waaay too many of those while I run D&D games with my FTF gaming group.

Just a note, the League knowing about Khaji Da could be very bad on multiple notes. For one, it would cause Khaji Da to try and destroy the League in "self-preservation", or at least blow up a continent, or give the alliance access to the League's systems, etc etc, as it attempts to rid itself of the "threat", then jumping ship to another planet.

Thus, if the other heroes are actually beginning to suspect that Willy really isn't insane, it would be better for the story if they think along the Marian's lines: Beetle's suit has a tactical computer, and Willy is not only trigger happy but also having trouble operating the tactical computer. And that the tactical computer is very buggy (hah! a pun!). But beyond that, yeah, Blue Beetle is effing insane. Or, that is the conclusion I'm hoping everyone reaches by the end of this arc. Learning the truth about Khaji Da should be a major plot point, likely to be revealed by Willy when it becomes relevant (like the other infiltrator Bladewind hinted at way back when showing up). Till then, let's run with the buggy tactical computer hooked up to a slightly mentally disturbed teenager conclusion, shall we?

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby TempestII » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:50 am

kenmadragon wrote:Just a note, the League knowing about Khaji Da could be very bad on multiple notes. For one, it would cause Khaji Da to try and destroy the League in "self-preservation", or at least blow up a continent, or give the alliance access to the League's systems, etc etc, as it attempts to rid itself of the "threat", then jumping ship to another planet.



What I'm going to say might sound harsh, so before I proceed I just want to give you a heads up that so far I've had fun and enjoyed everything, and that it's nothing against you as a player/person (lord knows I'm not perfect).

Buuuuut, if what I've quoted is true, then such a character shouldn't exist amongst the PC's ranks. Having a character for whom certain requirements must be appeased otherwise they'll try to kill everyone and blow up everything is bad news, and one I'd tear up the moment I saw it if I were a GM. It's the equivalent of a character carrying a Dark Secret (to use the flaw from World of Darkness) which is so terrible that if the PC's were to find out about it in one of the characters, that character would then go nova and try to kill them, destroy the organisation they belong to and help out the enemy. I'd veto that the moment I saw it. If a player had managed to get it by the GM and then tried to pull it in IC when we were around a table as justification as for why he was about to try and kill the party and their parent organisation, I'd tell them they can either knock it off/get rid of it/tone it down, or I walk from the table, because while suspicion amongst player characters can lead to a lot of good fun, murderous schizophrenia does not (unless it was a pvp game, but this is not).



p.s I'll be posting today.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby kenmadragon » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:11 am

Ok, maybe I phrased that incorrectly. That's what Khaji Da would want to do, but Willy wouldn't let it. Because, despite being able to take control over various parts of the armor, Willy is still the one in charge, and if he doesn't want something done, his will prevents Khaji Da from doing it. Willy's the one calling the shots, not Khaji Da. So, even if Khaji Da wants something 'out of the picture', it's really up to Willy whether Khaji Da is even allowed to make the killing blow or not. Sure, Khaji Da can access weapon systems to blast something without Willy giving the ok, but Willy can still pull Khaji Da back. I mean, Willy's a good guy, and won't want to kill any of the other heroes (he may want to teach Hawkwind a lesson, but that would be about it). So... yeah. The world is safe because Khaji Da doesn't get what it wants all the time, and has to listen to Willy. It's part of it's faulty programming, part of it's prime directive. In order to keep the host "safe" it may take some "initiative," but ultimately, Willy is the one in charge. (And if Khaji Da does take over and do something Willy doesn't want him to do, it better be because Bladewind made Khaji Da do it via the Crazy AI complication and compensates with Hero Points for all involved!)

That, and in pretty much every medium I have come across, giving into the Scarab AI turns the Reach Infiltrator into a combat god, probably jumping several Power Levels as the character becomes a GMNPC for the duration of the AI's full control. It's a good thing I wrote Willy as having a faulty Scarab which can't do the full take-over. That would be bad.

EDIT: Sorry, I tend to rant a lot. It's a problem I'm trying to work on...I should probably get some sleep, that might help.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby Bladewind » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:48 pm

Two quick things -

One - in the real world, totally agree. But we're in a world where you are genetically spliced with alien DNA or bonded to alien biotech... Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be for the characters come to their conclusions and perhaps not confront Willy?

Two - i'm having a case of RL and don't really feel like being online this evening.... Hopefully it'll pass by tomorrow....

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby TempestII » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:56 pm

I'll just say that I agree with several others in that by this point, Willy looks crazy and unreliable. Out of nowhere he pulls guns on people, he talks to himself and makes moves and says things that make no sense to an outside observer. These things do not endear one to him as a team-mate and instead make one feel more threatened by his presence.

If one also knew he was carrying an alien A.I that would attempt to murder the entirety of the only organisation standing between humanity and extinction if it were so much as discovered, then I'd just have the heavy hitters of the Legion rip it from the boys body and melt it because it's far too dangerous to be left alive to run the risk of offending it.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby EnigmaticOne » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:57 pm

TempestII wrote:I'll just say that I agree with several others in that by this point, Willy looks crazy and unreliable. Out of nowhere he pulls guns on people, he talks to himself and makes moves and says things that make no sense to an outside observer. These things do not endear one to him as a team-mate and instead make one feel more threatened by his presence.

If one also knew he was carrying an alien A.I that would attempt to murder the entirety of the only organisation standing between humanity and extinction if it were so much as discovered, then I'd just have the heavy hitters of the Legion rip it from the boys body and melt it because it's far too dangerous to be left alive to run the risk of offending it.


As his would be partner and the person whose been making the anti-Willy devices, Tinker has an interest in trying to reduce the need for it. Hence the idea of a private post-mission talk to get the point over to him that he needs to own up, and man up.
Impeach the peach!

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby TempestII » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:04 pm

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying - I'm not telling kenmadragon "Get out!" :P , but rather just to please go easy on the whole "murder everyone ever" thing if his secret is discovered.

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Re: Justice Legion - Supers vs Aliens - OOC

Postby kenmadragon » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:59 pm

You do realize Blue Beetle is supposed to be somewhat unreliable? I mean, Willy is just a teenager, he's bright, but has no professional training of any kind. He's still in highschool, and has no military training. He was raised on rough streets, and got beat up a lot because he was a nice guy in a tough time and tough area. As a soldier fighting an unknown foe, he'd be a hindrance at best. Khaji Da on the other hand has shit tons of combat experience and military capability. But, the Scarab is as loose a cannon as they come, and is prone to blowing up the hand that feeds it. Not to mention the whole incredibly volatile and paranoid bit. But, they balance each other out. Khaji Da is the force and power, Willy is the reason. Unreliable as a soldier to be commanded, but still very useful.

That, and I figured that the Legion simply don't know how to rip Khaji Da out of Willy or even if they could destroy it or not. I mean, where would you find the appropriate Mount Doom?

And I've been using that 'destroy humanity' bit as more of Khaji Da giving Willy some grief. It's something for Willy to grow to overcome, much like how he grows to gain more control over the Scarab, develop an understanding with the AI (friendship in time, perhaps?), and start to become a more reliable person. Character Development! If a character doesn't undergo change over time, then ir becomes dull! A dynamic individual who is still growing into the hero he needs to be. We're just catching him in the early stages, the rising action of his tale of development if you will. I hope for the Blue Beetle to develop over the course of this game, from the crazy and unreliable teen in the alien armor to a heroic young man aided by it's (maybe) friend, an alien armor.

But sure, I'll tone down the murdering everyone bits, if it makes him seem a lot more believable. Khaji Da will still be wanting to blow things up though... I mean, who doesn't like a good explosion right? :P :wink:

Also, how far is the group from the crash site again?


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