Proposed Ramming houserule(s)

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Bombaatu
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Proposed Ramming houserule(s)

Post by Bombaatu » Fri May 27, 2005 6:44 am

Let's face it - Ramming as written is broken. It can generate a huge amount of damage without corresponding risk to the rammer, simply because the rammer A) usually has Protection and B) will usually not *quite* travel enough distance so the ramming damage exceeds his Protection. *Raises hand* Guilty. I've done this myself and, recognizing it's a game-breaker, have refrained from doing it any more. However, this has eliminated what could be a rather dramatic move from the repetiore.

I propose one or both of the fixes below - look them over and let me know what y'all think...

1. The damage the Rammer takes is 1 per 10' traveled PLUS 1 per Rank of Protection or Hardness of the Target.

2. Ramming damage is Penetrating - the Rammer must always make a damage save.

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Post by ronalmb » Fri May 27, 2005 9:59 am

I have seen the ramming issue crop up in my game and I cringe when my huge brick of a powerhouse with his maxed out strength and protection decides to ram-charge.

Fortunately, a couple of things have helped cut down on that.

Readied Actions: Having earned a reputation for such dastardly tricks, the main bad guy simply reserves one of his actions for a readied movement to get out of the way of anyone that charges him. Once he is no longer in the target location, the charge misses. Still leaves the villain with one action (two if he is a "villainous surge" kinda guy).

A prepared villain might even position himself in front of something dangerous, leaving the "clobbering time" kinda guy to ram into something hazardous to his health. Doom has done it to the ever lovin' Benjamin Grimm a few times.

Terrain: Smart villains will choose terrain more to their advantage. Rammer lacks movement powers? Higher terrain, pits, and importantly.. blocking obstacles. A charge has to go directly to the target with no blocking terrain or people.

If you are looking for a game mechanic change, a couple of ideas:

1. A ram is a kinda range attack. The character has to set his target and rush forward. If the foe moves, the attack fails. So why not use a range increment penalty to his melee attack? Perhaps a -2 penalty for every 10 feet passed the first 10 feet.

2. Exponential Decrease in output: Despite it's mathematically intimidating name, perhaps apply a doubling distance requirement to the ability. For example, +1 for the first 10 feet, +2 for the next 20 feet, +3 for the 30 feet after that... of course, this can drastically reduce the effects to the point where ram isn't particularly spectacular.

3. Turnabout is the best medicine: Start using villlains that do the same. He's to tough? Target the squishies. Show the brick that the rule mechanic is truly horribly... abuse-prone. This is a little heavy handed and if the player doesn't care about the rest of his team, probably won't work well - but if the player is reasonable he might come around.

4. Momentum: A real ram attacker probably couldn't stop on a dime. If he misses his target, he should keep moving.. perhaps one additional square per point missed by? Maybe he could hit something or someone unintended, doing a lot of collateral damage?

Just a few ideas[/b]

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Re: Proposed Ramming houserule(s)

Post by Paragon » Fri May 27, 2005 12:33 pm

Bombaatu wrote:Let's face it - Ramming as written is broken. It can generate a huge amount of damage without corresponding risk to the rammer, simply because the rammer A) usually has Protection and B) will usually not *quite* travel enough distance so the ramming damage exceeds his Protection. *Raises hand* Guilty. I've done this myself and, recognizing it's a game-breaker, have refrained from doing it any more. However, this has eliminated what could be a rather dramatic move from the repetiore.
Yup. Single most problematic rule in the game.

I propose one or both of the fixes below - look them over and let me know what y'all think...

1. The damage the Rammer takes is 1 per 10' traveled PLUS 1 per Rank of Protection or Hardness of the Target.
This won't help at all against targets with Amazing Save Damage or Amazing Save Reflex and Evasion, which can be a rather large number of opponents.


2. Ramming damage is Penetrating - the Rammer must always make a damage save.
[/quote]

And this may be too severe in some cases; it makes a small ramming attack dispreportionately dangerous.

What I ended up doing was this:

When ramming, the attacker takes a -1 to hit for each +1 to damage he chooses; his maximum damage is equal to his base movement speed divided by ten feet (so a character with a normal movement of 30 feet could do a maximum of +3 damage).

This means in practice two things; 1. The attacker sacrifices accuracy for damage, which is already institutionalized in the system, and 2. Only the fastest characters are going to really get over the top here.
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Post by Patriarch » Fri May 27, 2005 1:28 pm

One thing I do with Ramming is that if the character misses I have them propogate their movement to the extent of their charge distance (base x2), and if they hit something (often the ground for flyers) they take their speed or the hardness as damage (whichever is less). This has the effect of adding some risk of personal injury (above the normal for hitting the target) to the maneuver and also a risk of damaging the environment, which might include bystanders. It has proven pretty effective with my players at making Ramming a desperation move.
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Post by Paragon » Fri May 27, 2005 1:35 pm

Patriarch wrote:One thing I do with Ramming is that if the character misses I have them propogate their movement to the extent of their charge distance (base x2), and if they hit something (often the ground for flyers) they take their speed or the hardness as damage (whichever is less). This has the effect of adding some risk of personal injury (above the normal for hitting the target) to the maneuver and also a risk of damaging the environment, which might include bystanders. It has proven pretty effective with my players at making Ramming a desperation move.
It, however, also means that you have one of two situations:

1. If only applied to ramming, bizarrely says you can't stop your movement when you want when someone was in the way, but can any other time; or
2. Means you have a de facto accelleration rule which makes noncombat movement even less useful than it currently is.
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Post by Patriarch » Fri May 27, 2005 11:03 pm

Paragon wrote:1. If only applied to ramming, bizarrely says you can't stop your movement when you want when someone was in the way, but can any other time;
Not bizarrely. It's a situation where you are travelling twice your standard rate AND attacking, which requires a greater concentration/effort than just travelling twice your rate (a normal full-round action).
Paragon wrote:2. Means you have a de facto accelleration rule which makes noncombat movement even less useful than it currently is.
How does it make non-combat movement less useful? And how useless is it currently? I don't understand what you are saying here.
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Post by Paragon » Sat May 28, 2005 10:05 am

Patriarch wrote:
Paragon wrote:1. If only applied to ramming, bizarrely says you can't stop your movement when you want when someone was in the way, but can any other time;
Not bizarrely. It's a situation where you are travelling twice your standard rate AND attacking, which requires a greater concentration/effort than just travelling twice your rate (a normal full-round action).
Yeah, honestly, I do find that bizarre; its not the way charge works in any other version of D20, nor in fact in any other game I know of that uses a similar mechanic.
Paragon wrote:2. Means you have a de facto accelleration rule which makes noncombat movement even less useful than it currently is.
How does it make non-combat movement less useful? And how useless is it currently? I don't understand what you are saying here.
Noncombat movement, because of the no-turning clause, technically makes most really high versions of ground movement next to useless if taken literally, because only relatively few places in the world have convenient multii-mile stretches of land with no obstacles. You wouldn't even be able to use it in cities at all if followed literally. This would make it worse because once you hit noncombat you'd not be able to stop in anything short of your per-round movement increment.
And we by this sole token;
Know we once were gods;
Take shame in being broken;
No matter how great the odds.

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