Protection vs Armor vs Amazing Save (Damage) vs Force Field?

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farik
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Post by farik » Sun May 29, 2005 12:52 pm

Paragon wrote:
farik wrote:
VTransverse wrote:Force Field seems a little nerfed compared to protection then doesn't it? I felt that the free extra was there to balance the limited duration (sustained from memory?)
To compensate for this I houseruled Force fields always have the impervious extra for free. Of all the listed extra's it seemed like the most natural aspect of forcefield. It seems to work well and further distinguishes a difference between protection and forcefield.
Currently I'm still doing the free-modifier-extra, but this is what I'll probably end up doing if it ends up bothering me; in a way its a more limited version of the same approach.
That was my thought at the time.
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Post by mgg » Sun May 29, 2005 1:06 pm

Paragon wrote:
VTransverse wrote:Force Field seems a little nerfed compared to protection then doesn't it? I felt that the free extra was there to balance the limited duration (sustained from memory?)
Steve's view of it seems to be that its access to Extra Effort (and as such its easy ability to emulate a variety of useful one-off powers) balances it. I'm of the school that's not so convinced. Sustained powers do tend to get a bit more out of extra effort than Instant ones in this regard, but even so...
With Steve's reversal about how quickly sustained powers drop when stunned, I'm starting to lean this way.

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Post by Paragon » Sun May 29, 2005 8:16 pm

mgg wrote:
Paragon wrote:
VTransverse wrote:Force Field seems a little nerfed compared to protection then doesn't it? I felt that the free extra was there to balance the limited duration (sustained from memory?)
Steve's view of it seems to be that its access to Extra Effort (and as such its easy ability to emulate a variety of useful one-off powers) balances it. I'm of the school that's not so convinced. Sustained powers do tend to get a bit more out of extra effort than Instant ones in this regard, but even so...
With Steve's reversal about how quickly sustained powers drop when stunned, I'm starting to lean this way.
Yeah, that didn't help. I can understand why he takes this tack; it parallels what happens with Dodge bonuses, and with Evasion, Reflex based Damage Save. But I think it really tips the already marginal attractiveness of Force Field over.
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Post by The Fifth Wanderer » Mon May 30, 2005 7:58 am

Force Field effectively includes the Ghost Touch extra for free, if you read the Incorporeal power thoroughly. So the math comes out like so:

1 pp base
+1 pp Defense effect effect (default duration of Continuous)
-1 pp Flaw: Duration: sustained
+1 pp Extra: Ghost Touch

Comes out to 2 pp/level.
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Post by farik » Mon May 30, 2005 8:04 am

The Fifth Wanderer wrote:Force Field effectively includes the Ghost Touch extra for free, if you read the Incorporeal power thoroughly. So the math comes out like so:

1 pp base
+1 pp Defense effect effect (default duration of Continuous)
-1 pp Flaw: Duration: sustained
+1 pp Extra: Ghost Touch

Comes out to 2 pp/level.
It also makes teleportation more difficult. The problem is that the teleportaion and ghost touch effects aren't necessarily as useful as many other extras (specifically they require the attacker to have a specific power). That's why I added the impervious extra for free since it can be negated with a 2pp feat it's also a limited effectiveness extra. In my opinion those three limited extras are roughly equivalent to other more common extras.
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Post by Paragon » Mon May 30, 2005 8:53 am

The Fifth Wanderer wrote:Force Field effectively includes the Ghost Touch extra for free, if you read the Incorporeal power thoroughly. So the math comes out like so:

1 pp base
+1 pp Defense effect effect (default duration of Continuous)
-1 pp Flaw: Duration: sustained
+1 pp Extra: Ghost Touch

Comes out to 2 pp/level.
The problem with this is that MnM makes a mechanical assumption that isn't really true; that all extras are as valuable on all powers. Ghost Touch is a wierd extra anyway; it's not generically useful, but can be very useful under some circumstances. Specifically, when fighting an Incorporeal opponent, having it on your attack power is very useful. But not even all Incorporeals have Phase Attack, so the number of times where its useful on a Force Field is actually pretty small unless the GM for some reason uses such characters a lot, so its benefit here isn't likely to sit high in most people's eyes. It's a more extreme version of the situation with Inpenetrable; if you constantly run into lower PL opponents with Penetrating Attack you're glad to have it, otherwise it doesn't really matter to you.
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Know we once were gods;
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