Vulnerability and Protection

[Swordfire]

I have a question about the Vulnerability weakness. In the core rulebook it states that if a character is hit by an attack to which they are Vulnerable then they make their damage save as a base D20 roll, no modifiers, no nothing. How does this affect defensive powers such as Protection, which reduce the strength of the attack rather than boosting the Damage save? Is Protection automatically ineffective against an attack to which the character is Vulnerable? Can the character use Deflection to knock the attack to which they are Vulnerable aside before it hits them?

[farik]

How does this affect defensive powers such as Protection, which reduce the strength of the attack rather than boosting the Damage save?

Protection is just a trick of transitive math properties to create a "ping" affect. The general concensus (including the game designer) is that protection is ineffective anytime an equivalent save would be ineffective.

Is Protection automatically ineffective against an attack to which the character is Vulnerable?

Normally yes.

Can the character use Deflection to knock the attack to which they are Vulnerable aside before it hits them?

As a GM I'd generally say no but it would depend on the special effects of the attack, the SFX of thedeflection, and the concept of the character.

Always remember a weakness isn't a weaness if it doesn't affect the character.

[Cardiac]

The official reply to this (it's somewhere on the official Q&A forum) is that Vulnerability trumps Protection. If you're vulnerable to a substance, you have no protection against it.

No, if the GM is alright with it, something like a Force Field might still work (protects you as long as your shields are up) or you might only suffer reduced protection against it (but then that would probably decrease the PP benefit of the flaw or it would have to be bought as an extra on the appropriate power).

[RoninPhorce]

I would agree with Farik, Vulnerability trumps any defensive messure, otherwise it wouldnt really be much of a weakness. Special circumstances may apply, the deflection vs fx.

[SilentTiger]

Could Superman use his breath to blow away the chunk of green kryptonite thrown towards him?

[elspark]

I read a comic book one time where he used his heat vision to melt a lump of kryptonite into a harmless puddle, so apparently all bets are off.

Or he blew a Hero point.

[mouthymerc]

Or he blew a Hero point.

That would be my bet.

[mgg]

Vulnerability trumps defenses, but not all of a characters powers. That would be too much for 10 points.

[farik]

Vulnerability trumps defenses, but not all of a characters powers. That would be too much for 10 points.

Wouldn't that depend more on the vulnerability?

[Dr Archeville]

Vulnerability trumps defenses, but not all of a characters powers. That would be too much for 10 points.

Defensive powers (that is, Absorption, Amazing Save/Damage, Deflection, Force Field, Protection, and Super-Constitution) are the only ones Vulnerability really needs to trump

[RoninPhorce]

Makes sense. I to have seen times where a comic character was able to over come a weakness by using a power so I would have to say vulnerability works against defensive powers not everything, that would be more like an inneffective flaw.

[InnocentBystander]

Could Superman use his breath to blow away the chunk of green kryptonite thrown towards him?

But that is not Vulnerability, that's Susceptibilty.

Vulnerabilty is MR. freeze/heat, Venom/sound, Superman/magic, etc.
I think the best compromise is to conisider the protection Ablative against the source of the weakness.

[Marshal Law]

Could Superman use his breath to blow away the chunk of green kryptonite thrown towards him?

But that is not Vulnerability, that's Susceptibilty.

Vulnerabilty is MR. freeze/heat, Venom/sound, Superman/magic, etc.
I think the best compromise is to conisider the protection Ablative against the source of the weakness.

Actually, I'd say that supes is both Susceptable and Vulnerable to Kryptonite (Kryptonite! Not magic, as my traitorous fingers originally typed.), as not only does its mere presence cause him harm, but it also prevents his protection from working.

Shoot Supes with a bullet made of kryptonite, and he will suffer a bulletwound, as well as kyptonian poisoning. Mix kryptonite into a nerve gas and he will suffer the effects of the nervegas as well as the kryptonite.

*****

And to my mind, Supes is *the* archetype of a character that has protection AND has a vulnerability.

So I'd be very inclined to say that something you are vulnerable should ignore protection just as easily as it ignores Amazing Save.

[mouthymerc]

I've always thought of Superman as being Susceptible to Green Kryptonite and Vulnerable to Magic.

[Cardiac]

From what I've seen, magic seems to simply pass through his defenses - it's presence doesn't affect him like kyptonite. A magical sword will cut him as easily as you or I, but he can hold it in his hands without worry of being affected.

If you were using the optional HP ruled in M&M, a magical sword would ignore Supe's DR and go straight to his HP.