Cone-Shaped Energy Blasts

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Cardiac
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Cone-Shaped Energy Blasts

Postby Cardiac » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:08 pm

Hi all. I was just wondering if there was a way to effectively model a cone-shaped energy blast (like a Red Dragon's breath weapon or a wide-angle optic blast from Cyclops) in the current M&M rules?

What about blasts/rays that damage everything in it's (usually 5ft wide) path like the Lightning Bolt and Aganazzar's Scorcher spells from D&D?
Last edited by Cardiac on Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cone-Shaped Energy Blasts

Postby The Trapster » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:23 pm

Cardiac wrote:Hi all. I was just wondering if there was a way to effectively model a cone-shaped energy blast (like a Red Dragon's breath weapon or a wide-angle optic blast from Cyclops) in the current M&M rules?

What about blasts/rays that damage everything in it's path like the Lightning Bolt and Aganazzar's Scorcher spells from D&D?
You take the Extra: Shapable, then make the shape that the attack will have. Now take Flaw: Only new shape.
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Postby Webhead » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:29 pm

My thought on the whole "cone effect" question has always been thus:

The effect is really just a form of the Area extra but conical instead of sphere-shaped. So in its simplest form, it is really just the Area extra. Just treat the radius of the area effect as the length of the cone. A cone is as wide at its end as it is long.
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Now, the arguement can be made that since the cone affect only eminates from the user's location, the cone is a bit more limited than a standard "ranged area attack" (which can be shot/thrown/etc.) and should constitute a flaw. But this would mean that a cone blast would cost the same as a standard energy blast and that throws statistical balance off. As a gamemaster, I wouldn't allow it.
Last edited by Webhead on Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ZeroGlobal2003 » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:38 am

Wait, wait, wait. So what your saying is that making things area and cone shaped are free? Cones are arguably better then single target attacks, as they can hit multiple opponents. If I have:

Energy Blast +X [Extra: Shapable (Cone)]

That means I can fire a blast or make a cone, because extras can be ignored/not be ignored at will. So to mkae somone who can only use the that shape you need:

Energy Blast +X [Extra: Shapable (Cone), Flaw: Only Cone]

So for free you move from a single target attack roll to a multi-target save based power... That seems wrong to me. Area and Shapable are extras because they are supposed to be "better" then normal. Otherwise, I'd think that Steve would have made the type (targeted, cone, line, area, etc) into an effect that can be simply choosen as FXs of the power.

That increase should cost something.

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Postby Dr. Nuncheon » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:50 am

Sounds like we need 'Power anti-stunts' - save 2 points by losing the ability to use an alternate use of your power.

Since are attacks are 'up to' their maximum radius, 'area only' isn't really worth a flaw IMO. If you took 'full effect', on the other hand, you might be getting somewhere. I'd say 'full effect' on an area power would include using area to the maximum extent .

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Postby efindel » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:52 am

ZeroGlobal2003 wrote:Wait, wait, wait. So what your saying is that making things area and cone shaped are free? Cones are arguably better then single target attacks, as they can hit multiple opponents. If I have:

Energy Blast +X [Extra: Shapable (Cone)]

That means I can fire a blast or make a cone, because extras can be ignored/not be ignored at will. So to mkae somone who can only use the that shape you need:

Energy Blast +X [Extra: Shapable (Cone), Flaw: Only Cone]

So for free you move from a single target attack roll to a multi-target save based power... That seems wrong to me. Area and Shapable are extras because they are supposed to be "better" then normal. Otherwise, I'd think that Steve would have made the type (targeted, cone, line, area, etc) into an effect that can be simply choosen as FXs of the power.

That increase should cost something.

Zero


I don't have my book with me, so I can't check this... but I think Shapeable requires Area first -- after all, before you can shape an area, there has to be an area to shape!

So,

Power + Shapeable - Cone Only

would work for a power that's already area effect, but for something like Energy Blast, which isn't, you'd have to do:

Power + Area + Shapeable - Cone Only

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Postby ZeroGlobal2003 » Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:19 am

Power + Area + Shapeable - Cone Only


Now that I think is fair :)

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Postby hobgoblin » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:14 am

how about just saying that its a kind of extra effort? that is unless the person is going to do it a lot...

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Re: Cone-Shaped Energy Blasts

Postby TRM » Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:09 pm

Cardiac wrote:Hi all. I was just wondering if there was a way to effectively model a cone-shaped energy blast (like a Red Dragon's breath weapon or a wide-angle optic blast from Cyclops) in the current M&M rules?

What about blasts/rays that damage everything in it's (usually 5ft wide) path like the Lightning Bolt and Aganazzar's Scorcher spells from D&D?


Energy Blast
Extras: Area, Shapeable
Flaws: Limited-Cone Shape Only, Touch range
Cost per rank 2pp


The above is no better than a standard energy blast as long as you have teammates or fight anywhere near bystanders. Often you'll be unable to yse the EB at all for fear of striking a teammate or harming bystanders.

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Postby PsychoBlonde » Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:37 pm

The option for this proposed in my group (since there are several types of areas . . . burst, cone, line . . .) and only burst is covered in M&M was this:

When you take the "area" extra for a power, pick one . . . burst, cone, line, cube? . . . what have you. Then you can buy the others as stunts, or extras, depending on how demanding your GM is. Every type of area has its own benefits/detriments.
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Postby TerraFan » Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:55 pm

How's about making it a new extra in and of itself.

Cone shaped.

Your ranged attack take the form of a cone. The cone's total length is your power rank X10. The cone shoots away from you in a quarter circle, in the direction you designate. It starts form any corner of your square and widens out as it goes. All characters caught in the area take full damage unless they make a Reflex save versus a DC of 10+ the powers rank. Chaacters on the edge of the cone recieve a +2 on their Reflex Save, and may use the evasion feat.

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Postby Belmonte » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:49 pm

Fairly okay, though I'd negate the +2/Evasion. All it is is Area, Shapeable (Flaw: One Shape). Area is area. Speedsters are too good as is without letting 'em jump around area attacks even in such a minor way.
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Postby TerraFan » Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:23 pm

Most likely...I kinda threw that in at the last moment to partially compensate for the fact that there's no to hit roll, though thinking about it, you're right...it all balences out.

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Postby HiddenRhapsody » Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:31 pm

The book "powers currupted" has a universal extra called cone, 5ft per rank of the attack. i think thats what yer lookin for.
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Re: Cone-Shaped Energy Blasts

Postby tesuji » Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:22 am

Ok, assumeing we are talking about a cone that starts at you and spreads out where, like normal areas in MNM, you can reduce its size but by doing so you also reduce its length, this may well be a reasonable cost.

A PL10 cone would MAX at 120' range (the point at which its total hexes area matches up with that of a Pl10 radius blast), but in order to hit something that far out, you would nee to have it be 120' wide and everything between you and the target also gets whacked.

Compare to a regular Eb which only started taking a -2 for accuracy at 100' and has plenty of effective range left.

Compare to a radius EB which can skip to anywhere in the long radius and then hit a controlled radius... maybe only 10' wide so you can pop the bad guys at 2900' and not touch the hot dog vendor 15' away.

Personally, especially given the loss of range (PL10 cone would max at 120') , i can see this as a net even trade as well.

I would not expect the cone starting at you and expanding to be significantly better off than the regular EB and would expect it to be much worse off than the EB+area radius.

So I would be inclined to make it as noted below, a 2 pp per level net attack.

TRM wrote:Energy Blast
Extras: Area, Shapeable
Flaws: Limited-Cone Shape Only, Touch range
Cost per rank 2pp


The above is no better than a standard energy blast as long as you have teammates or fight anywhere near bystanders. Often you'll be unable to yse the EB at all for fear of striking a teammate or harming bystanders.
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