New Power help - Decrease Mass/Decrease Weight

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Univox
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New Power help - Decrease Mass/Decrease Weight

Postby Univox » Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:39 pm

Hi,

My first post, as I'm EXTREMELY new to the Mutants and Masterminds game. At this stage, I'm merely reading the rules and importing our players' characters from other systems and concepts.

One of the powers that isn't defined in the current system or supplements is an ability to decrease one's own weight. Whether it's the result of gravitational control, magic, or mystic-style martial arts, the result I'm going for is very similar to Chinese fantasy cinema ('Crouching Tiger...' and 'Hero' being two good examples).

POWER NAME - ?
Cost: 2
Action: Free
Range: Personal
Duration: Sustained

You can decrease your weight with great control, vastly increasing your ability to manipulate your body. You gain Leaping (p. 74), the ability to ride air currents as if you had Flight (with the Flaw: Limited-Gliding) (p.71). Additional effects allow you to run across water, or balance on the thinnest branch of a tree.

EXTRAS:
* Super-Dexterity: While activated, you have Super-Dexterity (p. 85) equal to your power rank.


Secondly, I'd like to incorporate it into another new Power, "Mass Control". This is extremely similar to Density Control but swaps the new power concept with Incorporeal:

MASS CONTROL
Cost: 6
Action: Free
Range: Personal
Duration: Sustained

You can control your own mass, increasing or decreasing it at will. Increasing your mass works exactly as increasing density in the Density Control power (p. 65).
If you decrease your mass, you gain NEW POWER NAME? (as defined above).


What I'm looking for is your collective general opinion. Revisions, adjustments, etc. would be welcomed (as well as ideas for the power's name).

Thanks! Like I said, just starting out and I could use a little help.

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Postby Circeus » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:07 am

A power stunt included into a base power (here, a second movement power) becomes an extra. This power should cost 3pp per rank IMHO, 4 considering changing your mass is an effect too.

The description lacks the specification about how much you can vary your weight. I'd say a 25 to 50% reduction sounds right.

1pp+
transformation effect (mass changes)
movement effect 1 (Leaping)
movement effect 2 (flight)

I'd possibly the Leaping with a bonus to Str-based skill check.

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Marshal Law
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Postby Marshal Law » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:17 am

If you are changing your weight, without changing your size, then how is this power different from density control?

Changing your weight without changing your size *is* density control.
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Postby farik » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:28 am

The whole running on water and leaping amazing distances heck even running up walls can all be handled as

Flight
flaw: restricted :"must end round in contact with solid surface"
One man's hobo booze is another man's fiiiine sippin' wine.

Oh, and by the way, I don't use drawbacks in my game, just complications.

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Postby Univox » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:42 am

Cireus - Thanks. That's exactly the kind of input I was looking for.

ML - Ignoring semantics issues of Mass vs. Density, the effects are those of reduced weight - not the abilty to "phase" a la Marvel's Vision.

As a bit of background, the character I'm trying to replicate these effects for has Gravity Control. His ability is much more controlled when applying the power to himself. So, he gets the Density Increase, just as you said (he doesn't crush himself under his own weight). But there's no power I could find that would have the effects of a super light character (very subtly varying his weight to get the effects described).

As an example, this was the explanation for John Carter, Warlord of Mars' body powers. This character has used the ability before in other game systems such as Aberrant and (back in the day) V&V (albeit with a lot of GM leeway). In the past, it only gave him a dodge/dex/agility bonus.

As I'm totally new to this system, I'd like to keep the rules structure absolutely intact to ensure game balance. We could just say that it's an extra of Energy Control (Gravity), but I don't necessarily think that would be balanced.

Part of my conundrum is that Incorporeal is pretty powerful for it's cost. If I really go with an exact transcription of the power costs for effects and power stunts, it would bring up the "Mass Control" power to about an 8. Which, although fair within the Power Creation rules, seems a little to costly when compared to Density Control.

I do like the idea of this power being used for those that want to replicate the super leaps and feats of Chinese "mystic" sword cinema. I was hoping maybe someone else took a shot at creating the power and could apply some input.

I know there's probably a half-dozen ways to get these effects from adjusting or creating powers. So I'm hoping for various input from the folks that really know this system.

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Postby Univox » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:49 am

Thanks! Wow. That's a great idea. It would negate the need for the Leap power entirely, at least the need for Leap in combat rounds.

Outside of combat though, I'd still like him to "fly" like the gliding rules. Hmm.

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Postby farik » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:50 am

Univox wrote:Cireus - Thanks. That's exactly the kind of input I was looking for.

ML - Ignoring semantics issues of Mass vs. Density, the effects are those of reduced weight - not the abilty to "phase" a la Marvel's Vision.

As a bit of background, the character I'm trying to replicate these effects for has Gravity Control. His ability is much more controlled when applying the power to himself. So, he gets the Density Increase, just as you said (he doesn't crush himself under his own weight). But there's no power I could find that would have the effects of a super light character (very subtly varying his weight to get the effects described).

As an example, this was the explanation for John Carter, Warlord of Mars' body powers. This character has used the ability before in other game systems such as Aberrant and (back in the day) V&V (albeit with a lot of GM leeway). In the past, it only gave him a dodge/dex/agility bonus.

As I'm totally new to this system, I'd like to keep the rules structure absolutely intact to ensure game balance. We could just say that it's an extra of Energy Control (Gravity), but I don't necessarily think that would be balanced.

Part of my conundrum is that Incorporeal is pretty powerful for it's cost. If I really go with an exact transcription of the power costs for effects and power stunts, it would bring up the "Mass Control" power to about an 8. Which, although fair within the Power Creation rules, seems a little to costly when compared to Density Control.

I do like the idea of this power being used for those that want to replicate the super leaps and feats of Chinese "mystic" sword cinema. I was hoping maybe someone else took a shot at creating the power and could apply some input.

I know there's probably a half-dozen ways to get these effects from adjusting or creating powers. So I'm hoping for various input from the folks that really know this system.


8pp/rank seems really high. Could you provide us with a copy of how you figured that amount? Then we might be able to provide you with alternate constructions that generate the same effects. Remember MnM is SFX driven.
One man's hobo booze is another man's fiiiine sippin' wine.



Oh, and by the way, I don't use drawbacks in my game, just complications.

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Postby Univox » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:58 am

Hey Farik, I'll crunch it out and post it when I get home tonight.

Really appreciate your help.

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Postby mgg » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:59 pm

I think the original cost of 2pp sounds about right since it basically provides a parcel of 1pp movement abilities. I wouldn't charge more than the flight power.

Charging an extra 1pp cost for changing weight is not standard MnM practice. Powers that physically alter the person do not tack on an additional cost just for special effects.

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Marshal Law
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Postby Marshal Law » Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:35 pm

Purely for getting lighter, with no other abilities, I'd say was 1 point per level. Effectively Density Control (reduction only) at a cost of 2 points, and then a "Non-incorporeal" Flaw.

This would let you walk on surfaces not usually able to support your weight, and ought to give you a bonus to climb checks and possibly jump checks.

BUT:

If actually being able to reduce your weight is not the power you want per-se, only the *explanation* of the powers that you want, (which would still have to be bought seperately) then you might do just as well to use Farik's "Flawed Flight" which is a very cheap and elegant solution.

Don't forget to take the "Move-by attack" feat, so you can thwack your enemies on the way past!
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Postby Univox » Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:18 am

Sorry for the late post, but real life intervened (d*amn that real life!).

I'm pretty sure I worked out the power as I want it for this particular character (thanks to your input):

MASS DECREASE
Cost: 3
You gain the ability to lessen your mass (reduce your weight). While sustained, this adds its rank as a Dodge bonus to your Defense and Reflex saving throws.

EXTRA
* Leaping: Your decreased weight allows you to have Leaping at your power rank.

POWER STUNTS
* Flight Restricted-Gliding: You can reduce your weight to glide on air currents, as the power Flight with the flaw: Restricted-Gliding (p.71).

* Near Weightless: You can decrease your mass to a near-weightless extent, gaining the ability to balance or propel yourself off of any solid surface. Treat this as Flight (p.71) with the Flaw: Restricted-Must make contact with a solid surface at the end of each round. This requires a bit of GM discretion. As making contact with a wall or surface of water may be certainly allowable, however pushing off a kite in flight will probably not.



I think this is a super-manageable solution. The two Super-Dex effects mirror this power in other game systems and also gives the player the option of the additional effects.

I made 2 effects power stunts, since they really can't be used at the same time as the Leaping or Super-Dex effects (kind of impossible to gain any dodge or react effects while moving through the air in those manners).

The character will just have Density Control, Limited to Increase, as a separate power (waaay too hinky to try and combine both powers, IMHO).

Me am happy. :)

Thanks again, everyone!

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Postby InnocentBystander » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:21 pm

Shouldn't you get a flaw of...mmmh, what is the reverse of inamovibility?

If you extra-light you should get knocked-back easily, don't you?

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Postby Univox » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:04 pm

Hey, yeah! Good point. I'll look over the rules to see if there's anything there.


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