HitPoints or Dice Rolls

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Nightfyre
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HitPoints or Dice Rolls

Postby Nightfyre » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:12 pm

Has anyone tried out the HP optional rule?

Stun/Lethal are nice and all, but the randomness of them really are against he players. If you messup a roll with a 1 then your character is pretty much out of the action for awhile. Unless something can bring you back around. Otherwise you are always at the mercy of the random rolls.

So i'm just wondering if the optional HitPoints rule is a little easier to deal with for players?

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Postby Belphanior » Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:56 am

Do a search, this topic has come up before. Often.

I'd like to point out that your basic premise is a fallacy though. Spending a hero point will allow you to re-roll that dreadful save, with a minimum result of 10 (before adding in your bonus). So unless you roll a 1 six times in a row you'll be just fine, albeit a bit bruised.
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Postby BerkaZerka » Sun Jul 11, 2004 12:00 pm

I kind of prefer the Damage Roll option, but not Hit Points (for this game at least).

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Postby Nightfyre » Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:08 pm

Belphanior wrote:Do a search, this topic has come up before. Often.

I'd like to point out that your basic premise is a fallacy though. Spending a hero point will allow you to re-roll that dreadful save, with a minimum result of 10 (before adding in your bonus). So unless you roll a 1 six times in a row you'll be just fine, albeit a bit bruised.


And still with that roll of 10 you will find your character knocked out, alot of times with some Villians/Heros having a 20+ Damage Save. And you'd hope the character has Protection, Amazing Save, Absorption or something to help lessen that. Which some Batman Style characters will not. Then if he's already taken some stun/Leathal damage that's even more of a minus to the result.

So you are always at the mercy of the roll.

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Postby TRM » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:09 am

Nightfyre wrote:And still with that roll of 10 you will find your character knocked out, alot of times with some Villians/Heros having a 20+ Damage Save. And you'd hope the character has Protection, Amazing Save, Absorption or something to help lessen that. Which some Batman Style characters will not. Then if he's already taken some stun/Leathal damage that's even more of a minus to the result.

So you are always at the mercy of the roll.



Hit points will in no way help you. If your problem with the Damage Saves system is that characters without any sort of defenses get KOed too easily then I don't know what to say.

Those characters will only have a handful of HP using the optional system, and will be taken out of the fight just as fast.

Batman certainly has a high CON score and likely the Toughness feat, and the Evasion feat. This gives Batman a very good chance to make Damage Saves.

Do you really have a game with characters that have a Dmage save of +0 and no defensive powers?

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Postby Dr. Nuncheon » Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:25 am

Note that you can also spend hero points to act even when you're disabled, or to get an immediate chance to recover from unconsciousness, or to lower those pesky stun hits which are giving you such a penalty. Use them!

If the average attack in your campaign a) hits you and b) stuns or knocks you out, then you need some extra defenses of some sort. You're ot a superhero, you're a bystander.

Most Batman types ought to be able to justify levels of Amazing Save with the training source - either Refelex if he uses Evasion, or Damage if he's trained himself to take the hits. The caped crusader himself (at least in some versions) has Armor under his chestplate as well. There shouldn't be a problem getting such a character up to survivable levels.

J

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Postby d4 » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:03 am

TRM wrote:If your problem with the Damage Saves system is that characters without any sort of defenses get KOed too easily then I don't know what to say.

i'd say, "Make sure your characters have some defenses!" ;)

Protection, Armor, Force Field, Amazing Save Damage, Amazing Save Reflex + Evasion... there are lots of ways to justify having a good defense.

Dr. N already touched on this, but remember, a Hero Point can let you:
  • Reroll a die roll and take the better of the two results, with a minimum roll of 10.
  • Improve your Defense by +5 for one round.
  • Eliminate 5 Stun hits.
  • Immediately shake off the Stunned condition.
  • Immediately make a check to recover from Unconscious or Disabled conditions.
  • Act normally while Disabled for one round.
  • Escape death.

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Postby Dungeon Keeper » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:05 am

TRM wrote:Batman certainly has a high CON score and likely the Toughness feat, and the Evasion feat. This gives Batman a very good chance to make Damage Saves.

Also I've never seen a good HP-based version of M&M's Evasion feat. Sure there's the regular d20 System feat but it doesn't work quite the same way.

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Postby TerraFan » Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:02 pm

Besides, Hit points promote meta-gaming. period.

If you KNOW that baddie one can only do 40 points of damage to you and that you have 81 hit points, then that results in an artificial bulletproof mentality.

You can't be heroic if you're not risking something. With the threat of being taken out from just one hit, then you're more likely to play your character in a manner consistant with that of a real person, not some machine that can absorb a finite and known level of damage before he goes out.

I've never liked how D&D had a detailed and systematic combat system and an abstract damage system. One of the strengths of M&M is it's lack of hit points.

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