Love for 1E

The place to discuss using and abusing the first edition Mutants & Masterminds rules. Rules questions, rules interpretations, house rules, and more rules.
Mencelus
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Love for 1E

Postby Mencelus » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:56 pm

Okay, so, I've got M&M 1E, GGtG, and the Annual. What are these things good for and what do you use them for?

After much reading, I like 1st more than 2nd, so please don't waste time telling me how good 2nd is - I've got it, and I don't feel the urge to use it. 1st, however, makes me feel like I want to DO something with it (not that I have yet - still got a Star Wars campaign to run with Burning Wheel).

So, what's good about these three books? What kind of stuff did you run using them and how did it go?

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Postby EliotNess » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:52 pm

I agree. I got into this game just before 2e came out. I bought 1e, not realizing the new one was coming, but having it played some sessions with some buds. Very fun. I then was all excited about 2e, bought it and tried to run a game with it. It was far more rules-oriented than the first one and leaves behind the True20 feel of the original one.

I am selling my 2e and going back to 1e again. For ideas, I am not just going to run Superhero stories, either. I am going to run a "Fables" style game (ala the comic book) as one idea and am thinking about a Western/horror as another (haven't thought that one through completely). I think it is such a good generic game system for any "fantasy" setting (vs. hard sci-fi or specific hardcore genre game). It works well for magical realism, too.

2 e feels like a DVD special edition with 2 hours of extra footage, tons of deleted scenes, making-of docs and so on that sometimes strip the original film of its freshness and wonder. So I have to agree...gotta stick with the original, baby.
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Postby Mencelus » Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:09 am

That's exactly how I felt about it - I can't say it's bad (it's based off the original, right?) but it went in the direction I didn't want for it (more complexity). If I want complex, I've got HERO and GURPS (both of which I love but I use for different things). I wanted M&M to be fast and simple - 1e is and 2e just doesn't capture the feel I wanted.

Yeah, Director's cut. I like the analogy. Keep it coming folks!

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Postby jeff » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:38 pm

Yeah, I prefer 1e as well. That's not going to stop me from picking up the "Masterminds' Manual" or "Golden Age". After all, I can use the conversion document to reverse engineer them to 1e. :wink:
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Postby Bretbo » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:32 pm

Which is exactly the point, all Mutants and Masterminds is good Mutants and Masterminds...regardless of edition.

As for Mencelus original question, all three books are useful...to a degree. The corebook is very useful (and necessary). The annual is good because if offers some optional rules and a bunch of NPCs. Gimmick's Guide is overflowing with options for gadgets and quite useful if you have a need for gadgets.

Personally, I like the Annual; but didn't use if extensively. It did provides some game ideas and such, so I would recommend it. I felt that Gimmick's Guide added a level of detail and complexity to the game that wasn't really needed; but if you have players who love gadgets and how to model them in a superhero game, then this book is for you.

All in all, you can't go wrong with these books. You just might find the non-core books more or less useful depending on your game/campaign.

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Postby Mencelus » Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:27 am

Strangely enough, I'd written in the main forum that I started to understand 2e finally - the beauty I mean. And then yesterday my group wanted to change systems for an upcoming Star Wars campaign I was planning (they didn't like my first choice, Burning Wheel) so it popped in my head: M&M. But not 2nd. I still can't over the feeling that 2nd is quite right for me. So I told them first edition and let's run with it.

As for the supplements, now Gimmick's is coming on strong for me as I deal with Star Wars gadgets and vehicles. A little more complex but now that's needed as some players will want to do so.

All in all I'm happy I have.

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Postby Shadow » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:04 pm

how can you identify the difference between 1st and 2nd E? (by looking at it I mean) Along the spine of the book I have(from green ronin) it has grr2001.

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Postby Black Mamba » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:16 pm

Shadow wrote:how can you identify the difference between 1st and 2nd E? (by looking at it I mean) Along the spine of the book I have(from green ronin) it has grr2001.

2E says "Second Edition" on the cover near the bottom. It is the same for the 2E Freedom City book.

You can see the 2E cover here but it is numbered GRR2501.
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Postby MHolland » Wed May 23, 2007 6:59 pm

I have owned the M&M 1E book for a long time. However, I am just now getting around to playing the game. Then I see there is a 2E out and my first question is whether I should upgrade. Based on your posts I am thinking I should stick with what I have and enjoy it.

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Postby Evendur » Wed May 23, 2007 8:07 pm

I find that both editions are enjoyable, with 2e having one main point over 1e. This being how it is relatively hard to break the system, whereas in 1e, it was quite easy to do so. Therefore, 2e comes off as a cleaner system to me in that respect. I remember in 1st edition having a character that got off seven, Rank 8 Penetrating Attacks per round at a +8 attack bonus. This was without using combat modifying feats like Power Attack and it's brethren.
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Postby MHolland » Thu May 24, 2007 2:26 pm

Evendur wrote:I find that both editions are enjoyable, with 2e having one main point over 1e. This being how it is relatively hard to break the system, whereas in 1e, it was quite easy to do so. Therefore, 2e comes off as a cleaner system to me in that respect. I remember in 1st edition having a character that got off seven, Rank 8 Penetrating Attacks per round at a +8 attack bonus. This was without using combat modifying feats like Power Attack and it's brethren.


Gotcha. I don't have to worry about that kind of thing for a while. My group currently consists of my wife and 7 year old son. My son isn't savvy enough yet to pull something like that off and my wife has no interest in it.

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Postby Keizer Goji » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:14 am

I dig first edition. I dig second, too, but I find that second's really toned down the power level a bit (a PL 15 in first might only be a PL 10 in second), which is okay, I guess. I generally would only use second in regard to PBPs, etc. and first in face-to-face gaming. I guess the fact that I don't actually *own* second edition in book form helps with that...

Sure, I'll use some feats and powers and whatnot from second, but make mine first.

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Postby Geraturatu » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:23 pm

I only have the book for the first original book, and don't particularly want to buy any other books. So yeah, I'll stick to first edition. It's got alot of free room, and could be moved through alot faster than most other roleplaying games. Plus the power level in the game is high enough for any explosives adict :).

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Postby EL » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:55 am

I've only played first but have skimmed second and really don't see much of a difference. It is two bad the gamers I played with fell apart.
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Postby Brawler » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:58 pm

Oh man! I'm soo glad I ran into this thread. (I've been away from these forums for a long time) I just moved and I was unpacking when I ran into the 1e rules. I loved, LOVED this edition. I like 2e, but I really love the flow of 1e and I love how easily I could use it to adapt for lots of other genres. (I used it for a generic fantasy game and a session or 2 of a Buffy-esque game). I don't get that same feel from 2e. I've had a good bit of game wander lust as of late, and I'm thinking this might just be the cure... maybe. :D
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