Battlesuit Math

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Choice
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Battlesuit Math

Postby Choice » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:17 pm

I'm pretty new to this game and I've been making characters and learning the rules slowly, mostly by trial and error. One part of the game I am completely unsure on is the math involving battlesuits and Armor. I could really do with a step by step breakdown of the math involved. It is also possible I am completely wrong on a rule point or two, so feel free to correct me.

Let's say I am making the battlesuit given in the rulebook for Cyclone:

Armor +10

Extras: Energy Blast, Flight, Immunity, Super-Strength.

Power Stunts: Blindfight, Darkvision, Radio Broadcast, Radio Hearing, Super-flight

Flaws: Device.

Now, the Armor rules mention buying other powers as extras. Am I to assume that each of those Extras only cost one point each? I can see that for Immunity and Flight, but Super-Strength is expensive normally so getting it for a point per rank makes me nervous.

The stunts cost 2pp out right for each.

My math comes out to (Armor <1pp> + Energy Blast <1pp>+ Flight <1pp>+Immunity<1pp>+<Super-Strength<1pp>)* 10 Ranks + (5 stunts*2pp each) for a total of 60 points.

Which comes out to a character with Armor that protects at level 10, a Level 10 energy Blast, Level 10 Flight, 10 Immunities and 10 Ranks of super-Strength plus five stunts to go with it all with the Device Flaw.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Postby Evendur » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:42 pm

You've really got a good handle on the system.

But there is one thing you have wrong. A power that is made into an extra reduces it's cost by one. Most extras only cost 1pp/rank is b/c generally only the 2pp powers are used as extras.

So the Super Strength is worth 3pp/rank instead of its usual 4 pp/rank

otherwise you have it perfectly
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Postby Hawkmansdaddy » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:38 pm

There are three 'tricky' parts about Hurricane's build.

Evendur pointed out one of them, the Strength extra is 3pp/rank.

The five power stunts are part of the Device and are reduced to 1 point each as a result of the Device Flaw.

The misleading part is the Device Flaw. Armor is protection with a built-in Device Flaw, which is why it costs 1pp/rank. Listing the Device flaw might be confusing, though I think it was listed for clarification's sake.

You could get the exact same result from buying the battlesuit as:

Protection +10 [extras: energy blast, flight, immunity, super-strength; power stunts: blind-fight, darkvision, radio broadcast, and hearing, super-flight; Flaw: Device; 7pp/rank]

in this case it's 20+10+10+10+30-10=70 + 5 power stunts that also benefit from the Device Flaw for a total of 5 points.

Thus, Hurricane's battlesuit is a total of 75 points.

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Postby Choice » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:19 pm

Thanks for the speedy replies. It is coming together in my brain now. :)

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Postby grrolin » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:35 pm

In the same vein as this, I'm having trouble figureing out a few things about power/battle suits.

Now, if I take Armor +10, does that also add to my defense roll? My damage save? Any help at all would be welcome.
I'm looking at the example of cyclone, but the numbers just aren't making sense to me.

Currently, this is what my Armor Has, just as an example:

PowerSuit lvl10 Source: Super Science Total:76PP
Armor Power 10pp
Extra: Energy Blast:Kinetic(Stun) Propulsion, Flaw-Full power 10pp
Extra: Energy Blast: Fire(Stun), Explosive, Flaw-Full power 10pp
Extra: Super Strength 30pp
Extra: Strike 10pp
Immunity: Critical hits
Immunity: Poison
Immunity: Pressure
Immunity:Suffocation
Immunity: Disease
Durability
Radio Hearing
Radio Broadcast
Darkvision
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Postby Sword of the Spirit » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:50 pm

Alright, the math fun. To help make things easier, you can forget the damage save, or defense roll. Armor is the same thing as Protection in device form. So that means at Armor +10, you can take off 10 damage from all attacks. Any attack that is less than 10, does not even require a damage save.

With your build, I'll point out some ideas that may help you figure out your costs. (and still have the same effect)

With your use of energy blast, you could just keep everything to kinetic, and extra off the one. (meaning both propulsion and explosive are extras for the same cost with your full effect flaw.) This is just an idea, the cost is the same either way. If you want fire, go for it. But really, the point cost is the same, and you could describe this kinetic effect to look how you want.

Super strength is common, but at this point, Strike isn't helpful at all. You're already maxed out for damage using super strength, so there is no bonus at all for using strike if you are building a power level 10 character. (that'll shave 10 points off the build)

all those feats are at 1 point each, and you have 9 feats.

So here's what I think it costs- 79 pp.
10 for the armor
30 for the energy projections
30 for the strength
9 for the feats

Make sense?
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Postby grrolin » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:39 am

I think I do, but wouldn't it be 20 for the energy blast, and not 30? 2 base cost, -1 for being extra, +1 for fly, +1 for explosion, -1 for Full power?

Otherwise, thanks for the tips! I've never built an armor character before, and the help is appreciated. Well, first character I've built at all, so I'm still a bit lost.

As an aside, how would I get a bonus to my defense, other than spending all the points for the skill itself? In the book it shows types of armor with a def bonus, but doesn't explain how they get it.
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Postby Evendur » Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:16 am

The suit would then cost 69pp. If you want to round it out to 70pp, I would suggest See Invisibilty as a power stunt. Though, if you just want him to be able to do big melee damage, change super strength to strike. If you did, I would add in the extras Sensory Protection and Mental Protection.

As for the example armours in the book, they do not have give a defense bonus, they give an armor bonus, as in they are devices with ranks in the Armor power. The only way to increase defense without paying to increase your base defense is to increase your Dexterity, buy Super Dexterity, Super Speed, or buy the Dodge feat. Though, the cheapest way to increase your defense is to pay the power points to increase your base defense.

Good first character though. If you want some character creation help for this one, or in the future, you can reach me on AIM or MSN most days of the week.
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Postby Sword of the Spirit » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:55 pm

grrolin wrote:I think I do, but wouldn't it be 20 for the energy blast, and not 30? 2 base cost, -1 for being extra, +1 for fly, +1 for explosion, -1 for Full power?

Otherwise, thanks for the tips! I've never built an armor character before, and the help is appreciated. Well, first character I've built at all, so I'm still a bit lost.

As an aside, how would I get a bonus to my defense, other than spending all the points for the skill itself? In the book it shows types of armor with a def bonus, but doesn't explain how they get it.


Yes, you're right. My bad. :oops:
Ephesians6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

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Device Flaw on other Battle Suit powers?

Postby FuzzySadist » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:38 pm

Question...

In this case

Armor+10
Extras: Super Strength+10

Does the "Super Strength" ALSO get the -1 Device Flaw per rank?

The way the math looked here, that would be:
Armor+10(10pp)
Super Strength (30pp) [-1pp/r for being an extra]
Total Cost: 40pp

As opposed to:
Armor+10(10pp)
Super Strength (20pp) [-1pp/r for being an extra, -1pp/r for device flaw]
Total Cost: 30pp

Which is correct?

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Postby Sillara » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:47 pm

As I understand it, only the original power gets the flaw. The flaw is not applied individually to each extra. So, 10 Armor with the 10 Super Strength extra would cost 40pp.

Sillara

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Postby Bravo » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:24 pm

Sword of the Spirit wrote:
Ephesians6:11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.


On a completely different note this very line from the good book helped me to create a Battlesuit character named the Ephesian. An inventor who created his suit to help fight the growing evil in the world.
Bravo

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Postby FuzzySadist » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:10 pm

Sillara wrote:As I understand it, only the original power gets the flaw. The flaw is not applied individually to each extra. So, 10 Armor with the 10 Super Strength extra would cost 40pp.

Sillara


That was my understanding from another forum post. But it doesn't make sense. If I made

Armor+10
Gauntlets Of Ogre (Strength+10)
They'd both get the Device flaw.

I mean, if you take away the armor, I lose both protection and strength, so both are limited by being a device. Not trying to Min-Max, just trying to understand the logic of the rule.

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Postby Sillara » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:19 am

Yes, they are both part of the device, but you are already getting a break on the Super Strength by making it an extra. That is what happens when you take an extra. For instance, you could have Super Strength +10 with the extra of Super Charisma +10. (Don't worry about why you would do such a thing; just accept the example! :P ) That would cost 50pp. This is cheaper than taking them separately (60pp), but if you lost the Super Strength, you would also lose the Super Charisma. If you have Flight based on your Energy Control, if you lose your Energy Control, you lose your Flight. It is the nature of an extra. You can only apply a flaw ONCE to a power, not to each element of the power. Armor already has the Device Flaw built-in. You do not apply it at all.

Sillara

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Postby FuzzySadist » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:19 am

Sillara wrote:It is the nature of an extra. You can only apply a flaw ONCE to a power, not to each element of the power. Armor already has the Device Flaw built-in. You do not apply it at all.
Sillara


Ahhh, now see, THAT makes sense. Thats the 'piece' I was missing. So if the flaw is at the top of the list "say... 'touch only'", then all the powers beneath it are assumed to have the same flaw automatically, but only the primary power has it...

Okay, I can see that logically.


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